Gen 4 / Gen 5

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by Doc Holliday, Jan 17, 2020.

  1. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday CLM

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    Been looking at the 19 G5 models, not so sure I like what they've done with the trigger return spring. Didn't think there was anything wrong with the way they had it before. Any thoughts from owners of both with regards to ease of complete disassembly? Thanks.
     
  2. TexasPOff

    TexasPOff "Tactical Elf"

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    Both generations are easy to take down. The Gen5 just has a few differences as far as complete strip, but it isn't anything dramatic.

    The main difference is when removing the trigger return spring. You have to learn the armorers trick to doing it.

    It can be a little fiddly, but everything else is just as easy on the Gen 5 guns as it is on the previous gens.

    The Gen 5 trigger return spring is used in a compression motion as apposed to a stretching motion in the previous generations. This increases the service life on the spring. The old ones had a solid service life anyway, but the new spring should be even better.

    The same with the slide release spring. The release uses a compressed spring instead of the old wire spring. Same for the slide lock, now compression spring, no more flat spring.

    The new spring design and the way they work will have much longer service life than the previous designs. Plus you never have to worry about a broken slide lock spring being stuck in the frame.





    TXPO
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
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  3. Mike-M

    Mike-M

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    In all Glock pistols, the only Trigger RETURN Spring is the Firing Pin Spring, and that is the same part for both Gen5 and pre-Gen5 pistols. In contrast, the Glock coil Trigger Spring actually exerts most of its force AGAINST trigger return, which is why increasing Trigger Spring force both lowers trigger pull force and degrades trigger return (reset). Likewise, decreasing Firing Pin Spring force both lowers trigger pull force and degrades trigger return (reset), in addition to making cartridge primer ignition less reliable.

    We are thus talking about the coil Trigger Spring and not a Trigger Return (Firing Pin) Spring.

    OP: What EXACTLY is it about the post-Gen4 compressed Trigger Spring that you don't like? What have you identified as its principal technical deficiency? Is your only objection just that it's new and different?

    For the entire history of Glock pistols up to and including Gen4, the stretched coil Trigger Spring has been THE Glock part that breaks most often, at the hooks. Glock tried to reduce hook failure with redesigned hook attachment points on the Gen4 Trigger Mechanism Housing and the Trigger Bar. At the same time (2010) Glock began using those improved attachment points on the subsequent Gen3 TMH and Trigger Bar. The real solution to broken Trigger Springs arrived with the G42 in 2014, which is the first model to use a compressed hookless design.

    Yes, there was indeed a significant problem with the old design. The new post-Gen4 hookless compressed Trigger Spring can not fail in the manner that made the old coil Trigger Spring Glock's most unreliable component. Most would find it gratifying that Glock finally eliminated that 35-year-old design defect. No???
    The post-Gen4 Trigger Spring is no longer a separate part available for purchase by itself. It is part of a subassembly that is also not sold by itself...it's an integral part of the post-Gen4 Trigger Mechanism Housing. The only way to buy and install a new post-Gen4 Trigger Spring is to buy and install the complete post-Gen4 TMH/Ejector/Trigger Spring assembly. (That's a $12 part.) There is no reason to separate the post-Gen4 coil Trigger Spring from the TMH assembly except as a science project.

    So far, the only reason people replace the post-Gen4 TMH assembly is Glock's change from Ejector 30274 to Ejector 47021. The new post-Gen4 Trigger Spring may someday need replacing (by replacing the entire TMH) in a specific pistol due to reduced spring force after many thousands of service cycles, but that will likely be several times the typical service life (10000 cycles and more) of the old hooked stretched-coil Trigger Spring. Since the assembly and disassembly of post-Gen4 pistols no longer require messing with a separate hooked Trigger Spring, the post-Gen4 design actually makes things easier compared to earlier generations.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
  4. E.Bar

    E.Bar

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    I have not attempted to remove this trigger spring on my 43 or gen 5 26. What is the procedure or the armorer's trick referenced above?
     
  5. BigMoneyGrip

    BigMoneyGrip

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    The old trigger springs were prone to the ends breaking off. I've only had one to break in my years of shooting them.
     
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  6. Glock Commander

    Glock Commander

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    I liked the Gen 2. I love the Gen 3. My brother was swearing by the Gen 4 but I prefer the Gen 3 grip. I was hoping Gen 5 will be more but it does not even have finger grooves like the Gen 3.
     
  7. Pete perfection

    Pete perfection

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    A Glock is a glock is a glock is a glock. It’s a glock. They all go bang every time. Every gen is just as reliable as the next gen. Again. It’s a glock.
     
  8. TexasPOff

    TexasPOff "Tactical Elf"

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    Fair enough on the trigger spring not being called a trigger return spring at least by the Glock Armorers manual. The firing pin spring is not a trigger return spring either per the Armorers Manual, just saying.


    TXPO
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
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  9. kahrdriver

    kahrdriver

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    Excellent post, TXPO.
     
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  10. KappaAlphaASU

    KappaAlphaASU

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    I’ve tinkered with Glocks for years. The gen 5 internals are superior in every way to the previous generations. As it’s been mentioned here, the problems that did exist in the past (which are very very few) should be virtually eliminated with the new design of the internals. I wouldn’t say it’s any more difficult to detail strip, but it is a little different.
     
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  11. Nagoya10

    Nagoya10

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    Doesn't "detail stripping" eventually causes the frame holes for the pins to open up over time?
     
  12. GRR

    GRR

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    No.
     
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  13. ADK_40GLKr

    ADK_40GLKr Adirondacker with a Glock

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    I agree, Nagoya!

    I took my old OD Gen 3 G17 to a Match armorer because the "Trigger Pin" was walking out while shooting. He said the left side hole was reamed out a bit and that Glock is now advising NOT to do frame detail strips so often because of the problem. He monkeyed with it a little and told me there was nothing he could do for it, But I found that there is a non-OEM pin that is grooved for the trigger to ride in that prevents that slippage,
     
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  14. GRR

    GRR

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    The trigger pin can’t walk unless the slide stop is damaged. The grooves on the pin mate with the slide stop. The OEM pin is already grooved.
     
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  15. switch625

    switch625 S. S. Squirrel

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    Negative ghostrider. Two persistent problem springs were replaced in the gen5.

    Excellent posts by txpo, as always.
     
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  16. PNine64

    PNine64

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    Loved my gen 2s but mostly retired them with the gen 5s.
     
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  17. GKGlock

    GKGlock

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    If the pins did loosen due to detail stripping, mine would fall out due to gravity. The pins still set nice and firm after years of detail cleaning. The only exception, I reckon, would be if someone were to use a larger than needed punch and hammer them out...I've seen that before.
     
  18. jamppp

    jamppp

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    With my 19 gen 5, if you put the right pressure on the slide stop mechanism, the pin slides right out - it's not held by tension on the frame. similarly the rear trigger pin is plastic, so I can't imagine that is wearing that hole.

    Now, my Ruger 10/22, it's hard to take one apart without all the pins just falling out - it's like a game of Pixi Stix
     
  19. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday CLM

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    I don't like when they take ONE part, and replace it with several tiny parts. Glocks were known for their ruggedness and reliability. Keep making the parts smaller and smaller and pretty soon you've got a...Kel-Tec. Little bitty parts that don't stand up to normal wear and tear.
     
  20. switch625

    switch625 S. S. Squirrel

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    Reference? They held up to the MHS trials, it's a non stress part.
     
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