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G23 Woods Load

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by thegriz18, Feb 5, 2010.

  1. thegriz18

    thegriz18 Paper Killer

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    I plan on hiking again in the near future. When I do this I plan on carrying my G23, either openly, or concealed however my pack, temperature, laws, etc. allow.

    My idea of a good woods load is a deep penetrating non expanding bullet. I have been looking at hot 180 grain loads. I really like some of the hot 165 grain loads and I believe they might get more penetration. Does anyone have any suggestions, or test out these FMJ's? I've also thought about using XTP's and that is a serious option. However, I can't find anyone other than DT that loads them hot, and we all know about the DT drama as of late. Thoughts? Ideas?

    Please, no get a bigger gun, etc.. I can't afford a bigger gun, this is what I have.
     
  2. Ak.Hiker

    Ak.Hiker

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    I carried a Glock 23 as a hiking gun plenty of times over the years. I have tested out quite a few FMJ loads over the years for penetration in spruce logs. The Speer 165 grain TMJ Lawman is a good one. So is the 155 grain Speer Lawman. I still tend to go with the heavier weight bullets for field use and most of the time I would go with the 180 grain loads. Both the Speer Lawman and Remington UMC 180's will penetrate through at least 5 to 6 inches of spruce wood. The TMJ bullet has been loaded by Buffalo Bore in their 40 S&W line so they like the bullets performance. The Remington UMC MC bullet is a tough one as well with a thick jacket. I would carry either one with out a worry.
     

  3. 1canvas

    1canvas

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    bow hunting i carry a 23 with 180 gold dots. there is nothing in ohio that these woudn't perform well on.
     
  4. ssfeldjager

    ssfeldjager

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    What's good for the urban critters will also work on the critters of the woodlands.
     
  5. DWARREN123

    DWARREN123 Grumpy Old Guy

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    Unless using it on bear I would go with a good self defense load. For bear A heavy hitting 180gr and plenty of them.
     
  6. greenlion

    greenlion

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    You don't explain why you would want a non-expanding bullet. You are much more likely to need it for defense against human predators than animals. Expanding hollow point ammo would serve you better for self protection. Look up news reports for "bear attacks" vs "violent crimes" in the area you are going to and see which you get more hits for. For all the hoopla over bear attack defense guns you read on forums, bear attacks are only SLIGHTLY more common than zombie attacks.
     
  7. LEAD

    LEAD

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    Sorry, I missed that. Can you enlighten me on what the drama is about?
     
  8. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

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    Baffalo Bore Heavy .40 Smith & Wesson +P Ammo - 180 gr. F.M.J. (1,100 fps/M.E. 484 ft. lbs.) - 20 Round Box

    http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=117


    If your wanting 'max penetration' against critters up to cougar size then I'd go with the BB.

    If it is 'just" two legged stuff your concerned with, just use a good 180gr bonded JHP.

    I like the XTP's a lot and use them every once in a while for hangun hunting, (big bore guns), and think their great in heavy for caliber SD loads for any caliber.

    But you did say "non-expanding, and that seems to be what your really wanting. I'm just throwin some ideas your way man. Although XTP's don't expand much or hardly at all at times, if the true non expanders are what you want, I would consider the BB above . I reload, so i don't shoot to much factory stuff, just enough to stay in touch i guess with what's good out there and not good.

    Just remember that these "hot loads" in the 40s&w would be best served with a after market barrel with a supported chamber in this caliber IMO. Pressure can really build in the 40.

    Like Ak. Hiker said.. "Both the Speer Lawman and Remington UMC 180's." These are good rounds for your needs as well in the 40.

    Heck even the WWB 165gr FMJFN is doing 1060FPS with over 400ft lbs. This is plenty for a 'cougar on down'. I would not hesitate to use this for woods walking if I were going to use the G23 if this was the "only gun' I could carry.... Again though I must say, I am not a fan of these calibers for critters larger than cougars. I am not even a fan of the 10mm for bear. SO, that being said. Where ever your hiking, if nothing is bigger than a large cat. Fine.

    Bottom line: The hot rod loads in this caliber I would use a AMB.
    The WWB and the REM UMC's in FMJ with FB. JMO.

    I'm not a real 40 fan. Yes, I own a G23, and load for it. I'm just saying in this cal it is how I approach it.

    Well there is some more mess to sift through.... ;)



    Good shooting




    CanyonMan
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2010
  9. SDGlock23

    SDGlock23 Homunculus

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    You might not reload, but I find that 7grs of 800x under a 200gr Hornady XTP gives me an honest 1070fps from the G23, and just over 1100 fps out of my G22.
     
  10. thegriz18

    thegriz18 Paper Killer

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    I want to guarantee penetration. That is why I am looking for non expanding, however I have tested the XTP and would consider that.
     
  11. thegriz18

    thegriz18 Paper Killer

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    I know. I've spent a lot of time in the woods and seen my fair share of bears. The reason I say non expanding is because if I ever were to be in that situation I would rather have penetration than not have it. Besides FMJ will work for everything else too.
     
  12. MURRAY

    MURRAY Millennium Member

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    Most Bears at least the Black Bears are more scared of you then you of them. I would go with a nice 180 Load if your worried about Pen I would go with a 180 FMJ or such a nice Flat tip ones I have in 180 Federal FMJ would work. I think hiking you have more to worried about 2 legged game (humans)


    Griz your in GA now ?
     
  13. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

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    Bro, I say this to you in all honesty... There are NO guarantee's. I was a guide for a tad more than a quarter century. I have seen about every thing you can imagine out there. You said you wanted a bullet in 40s&w that would penetrate. You said do not tell me to get a bigger caliber. You are making this ruff. Politely put, your asking for something that does not exsist.

    You want to carry a 40s&w, and use it to defend your self against bears. This is NOT the caliber to do that. I suggested to you that if you MUST use the G23 or whatever in 40s&w, then use the BB bore loads or the other mentioned loads in above post, in FMJ. There is nothing else to say to you here amigo. If you want woods protection out of the 40s&w up to cougar size animals then use the BB or the WWB 165's or the rem UMC all in FMJ fn.

    You are not well armed for bear. I do not give a rats behind what you have read or been told. the 40 s&w is not a bear caliber, nor the 10mm. I have lived this life for, as I said, more than 25 years as a guide, and almost 50 years in just plain personal life. I would not recommend this caliber if you are afraid of bear attacks. First of all that will probably never happen to you. Every one has blown this waaaaay out of proportion. But IF you were attacked up close and personal, I am sorry but I would not have a drop of confidence in a 40 s&w FMJ or not.

    BUT, since your original question was about non expanding 40s&w bullets, I shared with you you as did Ak.Hiker the rounds that would best serve you. And I added that these rounds would serve you from two legged critters to cougars. Beyond that, I would not even consider this for bear. i promise you this is sound advice.

    Perhaps you cannot afford a larger caliber as a 44mag etc, I understand that and can appreciate that. But I also KNOW, I would NOT worry about bear attacks, unless you are not remotely woods wise, and a very careless person. Second, if you just have this on your mind and it is a real issue for you. Sorry, but get a larger caliber gun. The 40s&w is not going to save your butt in a bear attack. You will never get all those high cap mag round fired. If you are truly concerned with this. Get a bigger caliber. it is just plain truth!

    If you are dead set in carrying the 40s&w then the loads that were shared for you are the ones I would HIGHLY reccomend, and there is really nothing else to say from there.

    I do not mean at all to sound ruff here. I am concerned, literally for your safety, and am answering your question with years of "out there doing that experience". NOT something I read about.....

    Man, I hope you can find a resting place in this some where.
    Bottom line. If you are really worried or concerned about bear attacks, you should not be. But IF you are. Then Drop the 40 s&w and get a MINIMUM of a 44mag. If you are simply jogging through the woods and can grasp that all the creatures are not out to get you, then if you MUST carry your 40 s&w, then go with the loads suggested. They WILL HAVE THE PENETRATION you are asking for in small critter size animals. NOT for bear.

    I am just sharing the truth with ya Bud..... ;)



    Good luck
    Good shooting



    CanyonMan
     
  14. thegriz18

    thegriz18 Paper Killer

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    Thanks. That is all good advice. I'm not the least bit worried about bears. I just want something that could penetrate if needed. I'm an Eagle Scout, did the whole years of walking in the woods thing, and I agree with you, the attacks are so rare that it isn't worth worrying about. However, I said I am an Eagle Scout. Be prepared is something I live by. That being said, I doubt I'll ever need a gun in the woods for anything, let alone in civilized world, ever.
     
  15. Ak.Hiker

    Ak.Hiker

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    Never say never on needing a handgun. You are right about the odds but if you do need one you better have one with you. I figure 911 does not work to good when one is off the beaten path. Look at some of those folks in California that did not even have a good knife on them when attacked by mountain lions. That is not going to happen to me. If you ever do decide to get a 44 Magnum the Taurus 4 inch Model 44 can be picked up at a reasonable price.
     
  16. bubbatime

    bubbatime Jive Turkey!!

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  17. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

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  18. thegriz18

    thegriz18 Paper Killer

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  19. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

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  20. shotgunred

    shotgunred local trouble maker

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    Two years ago a guy killed a grizzly with a 23 in alaska. While not ideal it will work. If you hand load you can tailor a load to your liking. my self defense load goes an average of 16 inches and expands to 0.68 of an inch.

    While you are A guide I am a photographer. I get within 100 feet of grizzlies every year and I don't even carry a gun.:cool:
    I carry a gun for people. for bears and moose carry bear spray and a boat air horn. The portable air horn actually works best! I have never have had a bear attack me but it will stop a moose in his tracks,