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Fw: Israel on Ft. Hood

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Carolina Drifter, Jan 8, 2010.

  1. Carolina Drifter

    Carolina Drifter CLM

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    Subject: Fw: Israel on Ft. Hood----


    Very well put! Things certainly aren't getting any better in the U.S. Change? Yep, we're getting it. Unfortunately it is the WRONG change!

    Israel on Ft. Hood
    Israelis Baffled by News of Defenseless US Soldiers

    Many Israelis want to know: Why didn't the soldiers attacked by a U.S. Army major-turned-terrorist return fire?

    When a Muslim goes, well, Muslim in Israel , he is typically shot to death by someone, say, a reserve soldier--within seconds of screaming "Allah Akbar."

    In contrast with the Israeli experience, it took 10 minutes before a civilian police officer at Fort Hood was able to shoot and stop Muslim fanatic Nidal Malik Hasan.

    How could that happen? How could so many people trained in the strategies and tactics of modern warfare be so defenseless?

    The answer--and this may astonish many Americans--is that the victims were unarmed. U.S. soldiers are not allowed to carry guns for personal protection, even on a 397.5 square mile base quartering more than 50,000 troops.

    So it goes in brain-dead, liberal America ..

    Fort Hood is a "gun free" zone, thanks to regulations adopted in one of the very first acts signed into law by anti-gun President Bill Clinton in March, 1993. Click here for the file..

    President Obama's administration is bent on further disarming the U.S. military, and all Americans. Obama and his people will not rest until every American is a sitting duck.

    POST script: Israeli teachers, from kindergarten on up, are also armed; so, a Virginia Tech-type slaughter is highly unlikely at an Israeli university.

    Israelis, who have had to combat terrorism all their lives, are not afraid of guns. They are an armed people, ready, willing, and able to defend themselves and their country.

    Unlike indoctrinated Americans, paralyzed by fear and political correctness, Israelis understand that people, not guns, kill people.
     
  2. HighwayStarPP

    HighwayStarPP bang bang bang

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  3. mymini40

    mymini40

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    absolutely right.
     
  4. FLRon777

    FLRon777

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    It physically hurts to see our beloved country so paralyzed by this left wing BS. It should be a national outrage and disgrace that we do not allow our military to be armed on a military base.

    My God how we have lost our minds. Our forefathers are turning in their graves. :crying:
     
  5. Goldendog Redux

    Goldendog Redux Shut your mouth

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    This statement is a little outlandish.

    Anyway, not the point. There is not friggin way I want armed military on our streets. I know damn well a great majority of GTers don't want that either.

    As for armed soldiers on base, I imagine there are a were a few Military police on base at the time. I'll leave the armed soldiers on base debate for those more qualified than me to argue it.

    It speaks volumes that the local PD put the bad guy down though.

    MF
     
  6. Captain Caveman

    Captain Caveman a.k.a. DaReaper

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    First...It doesn't even mention armed troops on the streets, so chill. It talks about the troops ON BASE not being armed, not even concealed. This is a bad policy IMO. Second...Yes, there were/are Military Police on every base, but not as many as used to be. In the last several years, there has been a trend to use actual police officers to protect military installations (this also includes contract security officers to man gates and other fixed positions). These officers are DOD police, NOT civilian or local officers.

    Understand the situation, before you comment...
     
  7. Tx-G30

    Tx-G30

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    Even if soldiers on base were armed with private or issued weapons, by the time everyone asked permission from higher up, and those folks asked their higher ups for permission to shoot, it would defeat the purpose lol
     
  8. raven11

    raven11

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    This^^

    haven't known a MP that haven't been deployed , frankly i'm surprised it hasn't happened earlier. if it was up to most base commanders no one would own POW - personal owned weapons

    if they did , we wouldn't have half as many hoops to get a weapon stored on base as we do for the barracks guys
     
  9. SanityAssassin

    SanityAssassin

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  10. Silent_Runner

    Silent_Runner Can you hear me

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    You said it very well FLRon777. It makes me ill too.
     
  11. Goldendog Redux

    Goldendog Redux Shut your mouth

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    The article seems to be coming from someone in Israel and they are trying to compare Israel to the US. Obviously the issues in Israel as a whole are more acute and volatile. Not that it hasn't, could and will happen here. I am aware we aren't talking about armed troops on the street but in a sense the writer of the article is. I deferred the on base argument to those who know about it because I don't.

    So I do understand the situation and am not making light of it or attempting to disrespect those who serve. The situation is a bit more complicated then the person who wrote the article would make it seem though.

    If I were military I would like to be armed on base and I don't have a problem with it if they were.

    MF
     
  12. Airborne Infantryman

    Airborne Infantryman Nuclear Trunk Monkey

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    I'm all for being armed on base.....BUT....here's a big BUT; PVT Joe is inherently an IDIOT. He gets drunk, and causes hate and discontent on everyone and everything around him. Let the NCO's carry the guns; at least that eliminates the potential for PVT Joe to do something idiotic. I've seen it guys. I watched, as a private, with my own eyes, another Private set off a grenade simulator in his barracks room. Blew out some windows, and the MPs went crazier than a ****house rat trying to get to the scene.

    With rank, comes privilages; let the NCOs carry on post.
     
  13. crazymoose

    crazymoose Nonentity

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    And yet they can't keep more than 50 rounds of ammo at home, or own more than one handgun. Many people cannot own a semi-auto rifle at all.

    I think that it would be more accurate to say that America loves guns, but Israel is forced by her situation to concede the necessity of guns. Israel is quite socialist in many ways; were there not insane Muslims running around frequently blowing things up, I'm quite confident gun ownership in Israel would be extremely restricted, if not banned outright.
     
  14. american lockpicker

    american lockpicker License to Il

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    I've talked to quite a few Israelis and guns are very hard to get there unless the government gives them to people.
     
  15. RetDet

    RetDet Millennium Member

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    In my experience, the US Military is one of, if not the, biggest anti-gun organizations in the country. And I lived with the military from birth to age 26.
     
  16. criticaltim

    criticaltim

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    As a service member for 14 years now, I can think of arguments for both sides of this situation. During many training events out "in the field" I have walked from an unsecure "off post" training area, back on to a secure military facility by walking through the woods, rather than on the road, through the gates manned by either military or civilian armed security. I have thought about how easy it would be for anyone to walk just like I have onto post in military uniform with a rucksack full of explosives or weapons, where it is unlikely anyone would question this person once they are inside of the secure environment. I've thought about the fact that during an attack, we would be forced to counter/ or repel an attack without weapons until an armed force could respond. Our weapons are always locked in a vault and seperated from ammunition unless they are being actively used for training, or on a range. The reaction time to get weapons and ammunition together during an attack would be far too late. For all of this, of course im talking about a coordinated, sustained attack. When I was a Private, I used to think we could solve this by just keeping our assigned weapons with us regularly, just as we do in war. Now I know this would just cause more drunken shootings, and stolen military weapons.

    In an active shooter situation such as Ft. Hood, or the Ft. Bragg shooting (If I remember correctly 1995) I'm a firm believer that soldiers with sidearms could have stopped these attacks and at least reduced the number of casualties by reacting sooner. Unfortunately, in my opinion, not every soldier is responsible enough to carry a loaded firearm around on a regular basis. Airborne Infantry posted earlier that Privates should not be able to Carry, and the NCO's should be allowed. Now, I am a senior Non Commisioned Officer, and I'm embaressed to say that I don't believe all NCOs or Officers are responsible enough to carry on a regular basis either. I have seen some unbelievably wild things done with and without firearms involved by Junior and Senior Enlisted, as well as members of the Officer corp. I'll probably get some "hate mail" comments for this but.... Although I would love to see soldiers (and by soldiers I mean soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, and members of the coast guard) have the right to carry loaded weapons in a concealed or open fashion, I would have to vote that there must be a training requirement for this to happen.
    1st: There would have to be some type of training similar to the legal aspects of carrying concealed required by most CCW permit hlolders in most states.
    2nd: And this is the part thats going to sting: I believe there should be a safe weapons handling, and range training period of instruction. I believe this should be a requirement of everyone who wants to carry concealed. Part of my reasoning for this is that although every military member goes through at least minimal firearms instruction and qualification, few get to train with handguns at all, and even fewer get to train with handguns on a regular basis. I feel this should be required training for everyone because in my opinion "carrying" is a responsibility, and people should prove they are responsible enough to carry safely and legally. I assume some states require this type of training and testing, but mine does not, and I've met my share of licensed people who absolutely do not convince me they are competent enough to carry.
     
  17. american lockpicker

    american lockpicker License to Il

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    Now I'm a civilian and the closest I've been to the military is JROTC(so I'm no expert) but I have just one question to ask if there is people in the service now that can't be trusted with firearms then why are they being allowed to keep their jobs?

    I'm not trying to troll here.
     
  18. criticaltim

    criticaltim

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    By those comments I don't so much mean can't always be trusted with a firearm. Some of the craziest, most irresponsible people I know were great in firefights on deployments. I'm mainly speaking of, getting really drunk, and should not have access to a loaded weapon. Some really really crazy things happen in the barracks on a weekend.
     
  19. raven11

    raven11

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    keep in mind , we are not talking about the private that goes outside the wire and does a stand up job,

    its the one that gets drunk in the dorms/barracks and throws his sofa out the second story building, or gets mad and smashes a guys window because he slept with d-bags dorm girlfriend , tries to sell his gear at the army-surplus store, or mono-railed a car on the median of main st across from the BX because he was talking on his cell phone
     
  20. criticaltim

    criticaltim

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    I see you spent some time to the barracks too...