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From a tactical perspective, what is wrong here?

Discussion in 'Tactics and Training' started by Gallium, Mar 16, 2010.

  1. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    :cool:

    Let me assure you, that this fellow being detained is already within an inch of life. Under no circumstance, AT THIS POINT will he try anything stupid.

    [​IMG]




    All around, you have THIS: So he's not going to make it very far...
    [​IMG]
     
  2. RyanNREMTP

    RyanNREMTP Inactive/Banned

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    He would be dumb to try anything but that doesn't mean anything with idiots these days. Only thing I really see is it wouldn't take much for his left hand to go back and make an attempt in grabbing the pistol. Can't make out the holster too well but I don't see any retention devices on it.
     

  3. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

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    No hat, no appointment?
     
  4. BigKid

    BigKid

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    He really doesnt have hold of the fellow. I'm not a leo, but it seems to me that if you are moving someone from one spot to another while they are detained, they should be in cuffs.

    I agree with the lack of retention on his pistol.

    He should also be using the non-gun hand to hold the fellow. If he (or anyone else) try anything, he has to let go completely of this guy to go for his weapon. If he used his other hand, he could, in theory, go for his gun AND keep this fellow under some level of control.
     
  5. zoyter2

    zoyter2 Yeah, so what?

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    First, he has no vest on.
    Second, he has allowed a bad guy to with a gun to sneak up behind him.
    Third, he has no shirt thus allowing easy access for the atomic wedgie.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2010
  6. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    Have you ever seen LE in (for example) England, or Japan detain folks? Some of them don't even carry guns. :wow:

    The guy being held by the waist of his pants is very, very grateful to not have been shot on the spot, which is the usual deal there. The picture below the 2nd pic is also from that incident. The place was teeming with police and soldiers.

    Tactically, almost everything he (cop) did would be wrong FOR THE USA, but he's not in the USA. The lesson here being that tactics are not universal all over the world. You use what works for you in that particular situation.

    'Drew
     
  7. jdavionic

    jdavionic NRA Member

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    Very odd! Apparently the Chinese Wedgie Hold is growing in popularity amongst other nations.
     
  8. BigKid

    BigKid

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    Interesting take on it. But surely there are tactics that are universal, no? Such as weapon retention (using some sort of holster with some level of retention. using non-gun hand for tasks when possible)? Safe detainee handling (using cuffs to keep him from struggling as much and giving you a solid handle on the detainee)? etc?
     
  9. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    No, they are not, by any stretch. Especially if you don't have cuffs, or a weapon - hence no holster, or a gun to not use the non-gun hand.


    Here's another mind blowing concept: Warning shots - they are used in lots of places all over the world by LE, and especially military, including our own military.

    :)

    'Drew
     
  10. Hedo1

    Hedo1

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    Drew

    Where is the pic from? Jamaica maybe somewhere in Kingston perhaps? Looks like he has a 33rd.'r in the Glock.
     
  11. Blaster

    Blaster Hunc tu caveto

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    No tickie, no laundry!
     
  12. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    Yes, Kingston.

    Here is the story....


     
  13. steveksux

    steveksux Massive Member

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    One thing that's universal, there's now way the suspects left hand should be A) Free and
    B) Right in front of the cops jewels.

    Even if the guy just swings his arms a little in a normal walking gait, cop is liable to get nutted...

    Randy
     
  14. mikebandw186

    mikebandw186 that one guy

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    Also, shouldn't the officer be directing on the weak, non gun side? If the suspect were to reach for the gun from the off side, he'd have to reach across the officers body, and the officer would have better choices in reaction. And i'm surprised the suspect is being led somewhere, but not in cuffs.
     
  15. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    The point of my posting the picture was to underscore that tactics we learn in the United States are not "universal". Tactics are rooted in culture. Suspects all over the world don't act and behave the same way. That person, who is being detained by the police, is completely fortunate to be alive. Normally they are shot on apprehension, stuffed in the trunk of the police car, and driven about until they leak out a bit, then sometimes shot some more, or given to the mobs to be beaten/stoned to death.

    I don't think in the history of police detentions in Jamaica have there been FIVE (or even three) gun grabs as outlined above, and we are talking about hundreds of thousands of detentions, if not millions.

    Is it how we do things here? No. Would I recommend it for LE here? Absolutely not.

    It works for THEM. And that is what is important. Just as police in the UK and Japan use different tools and tactics that work for them.

    'Drew
     
  16. Deaf Smith

    Deaf Smith

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    Yes it looks like a 33 rounder. Might even be a Glock 18.

    As for tactics not being universal, well since in most other countries they don't allow gun possession by the serfs/subjects/peasants, and the police tend to have alot of automatic weapons, well they can get away with alot more than over here. And I bet if you photo them when they don't like it they get real up in your face.

    It's a different world over there. More like a police state than a country.

    Deaf
     
  17. CAcop

    CAcop

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    I am willing to bet their retention training consists of "They look at you gun, shoot 'em in the eye."
     
  18. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    No. It's, they BLINK, they eat lead.

    :shocked:


    'Drew
     
  19. btmj

    btmj

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    To reinforce what NYC Drew is saying, in the old Soviet Union, the state police (NKVD) did carry any weapons at all, except for perhaps a stick. People would sh1t themselves in fear at the mere sight of these guys. The political division of the NKVD did carry handguns, but not for self protection. The gun was for impromptu executions of political enemies.

    In that environment, an arrestee would not dare make a grab for a gun, because it would ensure that his entire family would be executed.
     
  20. mitchshrader

    mitchshrader Deceased

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    I wonder how the arrest and detention protocols changed in Haiti with 5000 escaped prisoners at large. Shoot before arrest? After arrest? Both?
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010