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I just checked their site too. Looks like all of the 10mm is sold out.

:sneaky:
 

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Their place is about an hour away, my BiL does the quality control testing (among other things)

No, I don't have the inside track, have made one pretty good haul on some stuff that was mislabeled

Some locals do go there and claim to get stuff, but the BiL says it isn't always available.
 

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Just pixels
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Over $2.00 per round, not interested. Frankly when they dropped the 50 round boxes I pretty much gave up on them.
 

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Over $2.00 per round, not interested. Frankly when they dropped the 50 round boxes I pretty much gave up on them.
Yep. I agree 50 round boxes were awesome. Great value too. Now even if you can get any ammo from them, you’ll have to pay. Supply & Demand.
Still cheaper than DoubleTap though.
 

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it is.

Recoil is affected by total ejected mass, do if they’re using custom blended propellants they can achieve velocity us hand loaders cant, with less powder.


My 8 bore makes a good example of this. “Full power” black powder loads are 272 grains (10 drams) of black powder. I can get the same performance out of 72 grains of blue dot, with much less recoil.
interesting. did not know that.
 

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AAAMAD
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interesting. did not know that.
We tend to only think about bullet weight leaving the gun. But the propellant still has mass, it’s just changed from a solid to a gas.

Burn rate can also impact recoil as it can affect the velocity of the recoil. Black powder is a sharp rapid detonation. Where as smokeless can be a sharp curve or a slow steady burn.
 

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We tend to only think about bullet weight leaving the gun. But the propellant still has mass, it’s just changed from a solid to a gas.

Burn rate can also impact recoil as it can affect the velocity of the recoil. Black powder is a sharp rapid detonation. Where as smokeless can be a sharp curve or a slow steady burn.
it does make sense. and may explain why I have subconciously found titegroup to be a bit snapper than something like longshot. the burn rate.
 

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You know you are shooting something when you touch off the 220g load. Definitely outperforms 357 mag. Not up to my preferred .44 mag load ("Keith" bullet over 22g of #2400), but it is one hell of a lot easier to belt carry than my S&W Model 29.
Funny, I load 18gr of 2400 with a cast 250 gr., it will kill anything in North America. Just got a 629-4 Mountain gun, and that is a bit stout in tge light gun.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
 

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Only if you’re talking capacity. Otherwise the 357 has a slight edge in meplat, as it’s not a semi auto.

Performance wise, they’re virtually identical

Underwood 220 grain 10mm (704 ft lbs)

Buffalo Bore 180 357 (738)

The only real difference is the platform that fires them.
I like big, heavy, hard cast, flat nose lead bullets for back country guns. My preference is .44 mag with a 250g bullet at 1400 FPS, but I hate carrying my Model 29 with an 8-3/8" barrel in the field. I realize the 10mm does not match that level of performance, but 15+1, 220g, hard cast, flat nose 10mm lead bullets at 1200 fps is close enough consider for me considering I can wear it all day on my belt without hating life.

I had a S&W Model 28, 6" .357 mag and while I love shooting it, it is not much if at all easier to carry than my Model 29. Given the choice I would carry the Model 29 (which is why I sold my Model 28). I carry my G20 on my off-road adventure bike, the Model 29 keep my other safe queens company.
 

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Only if you’re talking capacity. Otherwise the 357 has a slight edge in meplat, as it’s not a semi auto.

Performance wise, they’re virtually identical

Underwood 220 grain 10mm (704 ft lbs)

Buffalo Bore 180 357 (738)

The only real difference is the platform that fires them.
Main difference is the heavier bullet which I prefer. I realize that the lighter, faster bullet is always going to have higher energy rating.

BB makes good ammo also, not saying anything against it, I just prefer the larger diameter, heavier bullet, especially since neither of them is going to expand in the slightest.
 

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Funny, I load 18gr of 2400 with a cast 250 gr., it will kill anything in North America. Just got a 629-4 Mountain gun, and that is a bit stout in tge light gun.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
My 44 mag, is an 8-3/8" barreled Model 29-3. The Elmer Keith load is not unpleasant to shoot out of that gun, and the round is very flat shooting. I certainly don't want to lug that monster around all day though and I recognize it is overkill for the continental USA.

That load would be downright uncomfortable out of one of the mountain guns.
 

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already sold out?

I picked up some 180gr .40SW from them when I got my G23 gen 5. 5 boxes. it shoots really well.

and UW is always what I run in my 10MM as well. I do not know what it is, but they make some nasty, high vel. loads that shoot softer than my own that are not near that power level. wonder if it powder choice.
They only had the LeHIgh 140g superspecial copper bullets in stock. I have never tried this before. I got some as an experiment.
 
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AAAMAD
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Main difference is the heavier bullet which I prefer. I realize that the lighter, faster bullet is always going to have higher energy rating.

BB makes good ammo also, not saying anything against it, I just prefer the larger diameter, heavier bullet, especially since neither of them is going to expand in the slightest.
But the 357 has a larger meplat, which will in turn create a larger wound channel, because it doesn’t have to worry about feeding in a auto. So the .05 difference in caliber is largely negated when shooting hard cast.

Having shot animals with both, I don’t think you could tell the difference on game. The 10mm is really just a 357 auto. If you wouldn’t shoot something with a 357, the 10mm probably isn’t enough either. And if you would with one, you can with the other.

Got both, and I too used to think the 10mm was more than the 357. Then I started hunting with it, and now I have a proper hunting caliber. (.475)
 

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But the 357 has a larger meplat, which will in turn create a larger wound channel, because it doesn’t have to worry about feeding in a auto. So the .05 difference in caliber is largely negated when shooting hard cast.

Having shot animals with both, I don’t think you could tell the difference on game. The 10mm is really just a 357 auto. If you wouldn’t shoot something with a 357, the 10mm probably isn’t enough either. And if you would with one, you can with the other.

Got both, and I too used to think the 10mm was more than the 357. Then I started hunting with it, and now I have a proper hunting caliber. (.475)
Except for the bullet weight, you are correct, the difference is minimal. Show me a comparable 357 mag load with a 220g bullet and I will agree they are the same. In my mind a 220g bullet is better suited for deep penetration in dangerous game which is the entire reason for a gun like this. The capacity is not really important to me, but I am not going to turn it down. And I like having the ability to carry a load like this in a flat, comfortable to carry pistol. Semi-auto 357 mag pistols are a joke in my opinion which is why I chose 10mm for this.
 

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AAAMAD
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Except for the bullet weight, you are correct, the difference is minimal. Show me a comparable 357 mag load with a 220g bullet and I will agree they are the same. In my mind a 220g bullet is better suited for deep penetration in dangerous game which is the entire reason for a gun like this. The capacity is not really important to me, but I am not going to turn it down. And I like having the ability to carry a load like this in a flat, comfortable to carry pistol. Semi-auto 357 mag pistols are a joke in my opinion which is why I chose 10mm for this.
Both the 357 and 10mm are likely to exit any deer or cougar/black bear you get in the lower 48, so increasing bullet weight marginally doesn’t significantly increase performance. Once the bullet is coming out of the target, extra weight is not increasing performance. Especially when you can’t increase frontal area


The 10mm has a slight theoretical advantage in diameter, but again, having shot game with both the 357 and the 10mm, up to and including a 6+ foot Alaskan coastal black bear, the difference is academic.
 

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You know you are shooting something when you touch off the 220g load. Definitely outperforms 357 mag. Not up to my preferred .44 mag load ("Keith" bullet over 22g of #2400), but it is one hell of a lot easier to belt carry than my S&W Model 29.
If you hand load the 357 mag stomps the 10mm, even with heavier bullets (200gr +), and has better sectional densities. If you handled the 357 in a strong action like a ruger Blackhawk it can be loaded into 44 mag territories
 

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AAAMAD
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If you hand load the 357 mag stomps the 10mm, even with heavier bullets (200gr +), and has better sectional densities. If you handled the 357 in a strong action like a ruger Blackhawk it can be loaded into 44 mag territories
I wouldn’t say stomps, it makes slightly more energy, and fires a smaller bullet with a larger meplat which should in theory produce a similarly sized wound track. At its best, maybe low end of 41 mag commercial loads. Certainly not equaling or even reaching even mild 44 magnum loads.

Even then you’re flirting with or exceeding SAAMI loads, so it’s hard to compare above max loaded ammo with ammo that falls into regulation loads.

As far as sectional density, again the two are extremely close. .196 for a 220 grain 10mm and .227 for a 357. Unlikely to see much a penetration distance from such similar projectiles at nearly the same velocity.
 

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I wouldn’t say stomps, it makes slightly more energy, and fires a smaller bullet with a larger meplat which should in theory produce a similarly sized wound track. At its best, maybe low end of 41 mag commercial loads. Certainly not equaling or even reaching even mild 44 magnum loads.

Even then you’re flirting with or exceeding SAAMI loads, so it’s hard to compare above max loaded ammo with ammo that falls into regulation loads.

As far as sectional density, again the two are extremely close. .196 for a 220 grain 10mm and .227 for a 357. Unlikely to see much a penetration distance from such similar projectiles at nearly the same velocity.
I am curious. You probably have significant more experience with this so I am asking. I know that for armor penetration velocity is king. Does a heavier, slower bullet penetrate better than a faster, lighter weight bullet through tough resilient flesh and bone? I am willing to be convinced.

I am totally uninterested in +P+ or hotter loads. A full power .357 mag or 10mm is what I am mostly interested in. The heaviest standard loading I am aware of in .357 mag is 180g, while I can get 10mm in 220g. Does the 20% heavier bullet weight provide improved penetration in this kind of situation?
 

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AAAMAD
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I am curious. You probably have significant more experience with this so I am asking. I know that for armor penetration velocity is king. When dealing with tough resilient flesh. Does a heavier, slower bullet penetrate better than a faster, lighter weight bullet? I am willing to be convinced.

I am totally uninterested in +P+ or hotter loads.
Lot of things play into penetration.

Velocity plays a big part, but projectile design and construction does as well.

In handguns, given the low speed, non expanding bullets and FMJ’s will typically produce long wound tracks easily penetrating 30 inches of gel. However, profile affects the penetration as FMJ’s with rounded noses are known to turn/deflect on solid bone strikes, where as flat nosed bullets like hard cast are good penetrators that often hold true through heavy impacts because of the flat impact surface.


They also produce larger diameter wound paths, however, this can somewhat lessen penetration when compared to a round nose, as they’re encountering more resistance.


Sectional density (M/D^2) of a projectile is a good way to compare penetration capability of a bullet. The higher the number the more it would penetrate compared to another at the same velocity.


In the case we’ve been talking (10vs357) the velocity difference and weight difference are largely academic, so you would see very little difference in penetration


In the case of rifles though, you can see it when you compare loads like the 140 grain 308 has a relatively low 100 something SD, where as the hard cast 45-70’s 540 grain .458 that was known to shoot through Buffalo has a impressive .360 indicating it will offer superior penetration
 
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