For the deniers...

Discussion in 'Covid-19 News/Info' started by DaleGribble, Mar 30, 2020.

  1. HollowHead

    HollowHead Firm member

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    What does any of this have to do with COVID-19? HH
     
  2. Neldon

    Neldon Sir Arthur if you Puh-leeze!

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    Welcome to reality
     
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  3. The Father

    The Father

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    Obviously you do not understand the situation I am presenting. How could this not happen every year. You see the stats. I can only assume those that die from flu each year, just quietly stay at home and die.
     
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  4. The Father

    The Father

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    CDC: 80,000 people died of flu last winter in U.S., highest death toll in 40 years

    By ASSOCIATED PRESS

    SEPTEMBER 26, 2018

    Flu season typically falls sometime between the start of fall and the end of spring. For the past three decades, flu activity has peaked at some point between the months of October and February but always tapers off by April.

    upload_2020-4-1_16-35-2.png

    Not my facts. Just how in the hell are we not overwhelmed every year. My simple math says 15,000 die a month during a flu season.

    In none of my posts is Coronavirus denied. So you tell us all how we are not overwhelmed each year
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
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  5. GlockerBill

    GlockerBill

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    I asked early on who was denying? Now, a couple of days later, I see there actually are some out there, one in particular. My bad.
     
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  6. DaleGribble

    DaleGribble Sandwich!

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    No need to "My bad" anything Bill, you're good.

    I didn't answer your question because I knew they would show themselves.
     
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  7. Hartford

    Hartford

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    It's the speed at which this has come on and the number of cases that need hospitalization, not just the number that die. You are comparing numbers from almost a complete flu season to numbers for Covid19 that didn't really start in this country until mid February. Our first death was February 29th and was the result of community transmission. Most cases of Covid19 in the US before that were travelers that had come here. It is a difference.

    This virus creates far more critical cases that need longer hospitalization than what the flu does.

    On March 17th there were 6300 total cases in this country, on march 24th there were 54k, on the 31st there were 188k and today we will have more than 214k cases.

    Total deaths for the same dates were 110, 780, 4000 and today we will have more than 5000.
    Time for dying after coming down with symptoms can range from a few days to a few weeks. It takes on average longer almost a week longer to make a recovery than it does to die.

    The speed at which these numbers climb is far greater than the flu and our healthcare system has never had to deal with an epidemic like this. You add this huge influx of cases to the system and the system is overloaded. We're getting to the point in new York where current corona virus deaths are now more than the number of daily deaths before Covid19.
     
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  8. Hartford

    Hartford

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    It's not just deaths. Far more coronavirus patients require critical care than flu patients. It's the number of cases that need to be kept on a ventilator for a week or two that are overwhelming the healthcare system. If these people were just dropping dead they wouldn't even need to go to the hospital.
     
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  9. The Father

    The Father

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    Not dismissing anything here, but here is a stat

    approx 5,000 C-19 deaths in one month

    2018 flu deaths approx. 15,000 in a month

    Explain the disconnect again. Why no healthcare collapse in 2018? Tell us the difference again.
     
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  10. DaleGribble

    DaleGribble Sandwich!

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    And last year the vast majority of hospitals were close to being overwhelmed. I know because I personally lived it. ICU beds were in short supply and I was taking care of ICU patients in an E.R. while waiting for ICU beds to open up.

    The overwhelming vast majority of hospitals stay close to maximum capacity as possible in order to maximize profits. Their is very little surge capacity built into our health care system under normal conditions.

    Now throw in millions of sick patients with COVID-19 in a very short amount of time, because the virus is so infectious, and there will not be enough space, healthcare providers, and equipment to care for them.

    Dying people who could be saved would literally be turned away to die.
     
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  11. The Father

    The Father

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    • March 12, 2006 (NYTIMES)




    No one knows whether an avian flu virus that is racing around the world might mutate into a strain that could cause a human pandemic, or whether such a pandemic would cause widespread illness in the United States. But if it did, public health experts and officials agree on one thing: the nation's hospitals would not have enough ventilators, the machines that pump oxygen into sick patients' lungs.

    Right now, there are 105,000 ventilators, and even during a regular flu season, about 100,000 are in use. In a worst-case human pandemic, according to the national preparedness plan issued by President Bush in November, the country would need as many as 742,500.

    According to this Bush and Obama failed us for 10 years and now it is Trumps fault.

    The US should have built 100’s of hospitals and put them in mothballs for this event, correct?
    The US should have a vast network of warehouse full of medical supplies. Maybe we should have done that instead of wasting trillions
    Of $$ and thousands of lives and 100’s of thousands injured in the ****hole Middle East.

    ohhh dammit, just another Trump talking point. Sorry.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
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  12. Mr Meeseeks

    Mr Meeseeks

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    The really pitiful thing is many older curmudgeons that distrust experts, scientists, etc will be disproportionately underground in a year’s time. Or they might be ashes.

    Take this virus SERIOUSLY now. Or make funeral plans and have your Will updated. Probably ought to do all these anyway.
     
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  13. The Father

    The Father

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    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4603361/

    Another article discussing need for ventilators.
    Maybe if Donald Trump was not hounded by bull crap Russian collusion, impeachment BS, etc etc.
    Well, The Donald probably would have solved this pre-existing condition.
     
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  14. Hartford

    Hartford

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    We've had almost 5k deaths in two weeks, but again it isn't just the deaths. It the number of patients that require critical care and the length of time they need that care, I.E. ventilators. That number is far larger with Covid19 than with the flu. That's where hospitals and healthcare are getting overwhelmed.

    Inserted quote from @PicardMD

     
  15. pI20

    pI20

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    My wife is a nurse, they just started receiving confirmed COVID cases within the past 2-3 weeks. Already, one of her colleagues is dead from COVID and another is on a ventilator. It feels real to her right now.

    My mom was an ICU nurse for 40 years, her Dr. friends are very concerned about the damage done to the lungs of those who survive.

    Seems worse than the flu, just looking at the world around me.
     
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  16. Hartford

    Hartford

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    Not knocking Trump, but it probably wouldn't have happened. Ventilators can be 30k dollars. Buying 100's of thousands for an event that no one thought would be coming would have been something most people would not have supported. Lots of his most ardent supporters still can't grasp the very real danger posed by this virus, they wouldn't have understood the need to buy all those ventilators and mothball them, IMHO. It would have been a losing proposition.
     
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  17. The Father

    The Father

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    Probably, but The Donald could sell ice to an Eskimo. It would be a biggly deal he would tell them. Huge.

    Just so you know, I ain’t a denier, just take any attempt to pin this catastrophic event on The Donald kinda gets me going. The virus piled on top of a race car over the cliff depression now......well the crap hasn’t even started to pile up yet.

    My oldest son an ER nurse had an oh **** moment this week. He had an ER patient tell him his breathing problems were from chemicals at work. The guy was lying because he didn’t want people to think he had coronavirus.
    Well anyway, my son ended up sleeping in the basement for 3 days till the lying bastards test came back. Negative. My kid was torqued. Since the guy lied to my kid, he didn’t go full gear. Just the glasses, mask, and gloves instead of N95 and the usual protective gown and stuff. Guy had all sorts of **** in his lungs and didn’t have the regular flu from tests given.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
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  18. faawrenchbndr

    faawrenchbndr CLM

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    15717841-38A0-417B-BD6D-9557EAF29886.jpeg
     
  19. Hartford

    Hartford

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    I agree this isn't President Trump's fault. He's been dealt the worst hand of any recent president. I still support him.
     
  20. HarlDane

    HarlDane

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    You're right. Had Obama purchased tens of thousands of ventilators there would have been dozens of threads about his kickback to the ventilator manufacturers and the wastefulness of federal government spending on heath care.
     
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