For the boat aficionados

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by alexcc, Mar 20, 2010.

  1. alexcc

    alexcc

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    http://www.hondamarineknysna.co.za/boats/mono/seacountess.html

    Hi all, hope you are having a good weekend!

    I am away with my family (in Knysna) and my dad has suddenly showed some interest in buying a family boat. He has always wanted one but the holiday mood and fact that there are tons of boats in this area has pushed him a bit.

    We went to look at a Honda marine dealer today and took a quick ride, so thought I'd mention some of the things he said and double check that they weren't just sales talk rubbish, although I'm sure some of it was.

    The boat is in the link. The boat builder is a national builder, who is known to be one of the best, so I'm not too concerned about that. It is able to go to sea within a 5-mile radius from shore but will be mostly used on lakes/dams for water sports etc, and around the beaches etc. It handled the chop of the water extremely well and was also very comfortable, so my questions are more engine related.

    Are Honda 4-strokes good, reliable engines? The one in question is the 225HP v-tech. I asked him about the Evinrude e-tec, as we've also got some quotes on a similar boat with this engine . While he said it's also a very good engine, he was saying 4-strokes are better because they are more quiet, fuel efficient, and have a better torque curve especially for skiing. He said "just look at the road, do you see any two-strokes anymore?" He also said that Honda are the only engines that measure power at the prop and not the flywheel. I found this a bit hard to believe but is it true?

    The price of the boat with a trailer and 225HP Honda was around R360 000 ($50 000). This is generally what boats cost around here - would this be expensive in the US? (Just for interest sake) :)
     
  2. luckydogsc

    luckydogsc

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    The thing about a two stroke versus a four stroke is that certainly afour stroke is more efficient, quieter. I disagree overall with the torque curve statement though. The general concensus is that a two stroke will still pull more from a lower rpm. This is more important if you are skiing, wakeboarding, or tubing. That being said with a 225 you really do not need to worry as that will pull pretty much everyone up on skis. I in fact would prefer a four stroke for the above mentioned reasons.

    I would caution you as far as the use of the boat on the ocean. I would stick just to very nice days. The lack of a self bailing deck and the open bow can be a bad combo in offshore or rough water. I think that the boat would be perfect for lakes and rivers.

    As far as pricing that is quite a bit more than we would pay here
     

  3. luckydogsc

    luckydogsc

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    I would also check out www thehulltruth com

    They are more of a fishing boat site but the outboard is primarily used on fishing boats. There is a lot of knowledgethere.
     
  4. MtBaldy

    MtBaldy Obie Wan, RIP

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    It looks like a nice boat. Any 19 footer is going to have to be careful offshore despite it having "Offshore" in it's name, especially a single engine one. The main reason for 2 stroke outboards in the past was they develop more HP per cubic inch than 4 stroke engines. Since outboards usually go at the stern of small boats making them as light as possible was a good idea. Modern 4 stroke engines with electronic ignition and fuel injection come very close. Two strokes are primarily being phased out due to their constant exhaust of lubricating oil. The price is high for here, a similar boat here would be around 20-30,000 depending on make and model. If you're comfortable the price is competitive for SA then I'd say go for it. Do one thing for me though, take a safe boating course from your equivalent of the Coast Guard or USPS. Have fun and stay safe.

    Capt. MtBaldy
     
  5. alexcc

    alexcc

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    Thanks for all the info and tips guys. I/we will be shopping around a bit more to double check prices etc. but I'm hoping my dad will make a decision by April. Pics to follow if it happens :cool:

    There are necessary courses and skippers licenses I have to do before I can legally take it out so obviously I'll be doing that if we get it.
     
  6. Crazy KD

    Crazy KD

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    Honda makes a good solid engine. Pricey, but good. I don't know the status of Evinrude at this point as they went bankrupt a few years ago then transitioned to I believe the Seadoo / Skidoo folks. Then I think they sold it, but it was possibly purchased by the family that owned Seadoo? I've been out of the industry a few years, but if it was me I'd not get an Evinrude. Yamaha would be my #1 choice.

    As far as that boat it is a good lake boat or what I'd call near shore. I'd be very hesitant to take it offshore more than the distance I could swim. The single engine isn't the problem as I've been 50-60 miles offshore on a single engine, but it is the non self bailing boat and it doesn't look to be a non-sinkable boat like a Boston Whaler or Scout. As far as comparable cost in the US that boat would be around $20-25k for a 135 hp Honda. Most of the cost is in the engine.
     
  7. Crazy KD

    Crazy KD

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    Now that is totally different. No licenses or training is required. You only need a license if you are 'for hire' or charging people to take them out on the water. If it is your own boat nothing is required for any size boat.
     
  8. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

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    I'm a Yamaha man, but Honda is a fine engine.

    The torque curve thing is wrong. A 2 stroke is going to provide more torque at the low end. I've owned several of both. Both propped correctly for your needs, you're gonna be running the 4S at higher RPMs to make the same speed in the midrange.

    From an efficiency standpoint, you're probably about equal to the etech. They are very efficient also.

    The 4S is gonna be heavier but in a boat that size it would be negligible.

    4S is nice not having to fool with 2 stroke oil. Nothing sucks like being out on the water and having the oil alarm go off because you forgot to fill it.

    If reliability is the goal, Honda 4S. I'm just not a fan of the DI 2 strokes.

    If I were buying and those were the two choices, I'd go with the Honda 4S.
     
  9. hatidua

    hatidua

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    Honda makes a good engine but any repower in my future will be a Suzuki - I've had Yami/OMC/Suzy/Honda/Merc/Etc. and none run like a Suzy/
     
  10. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

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    I have heard that from every single Zuke owner I've asked.
     
  11. SHG21

    SHG21

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    My 250 yamahas have been flawless, the evinrude we bought for the smaller boat had computer problem. From what I have heard the Hondas are reliable however though YMMV.
     
  12. MtBaldy

    MtBaldy Obie Wan, RIP

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    Not quite true. A number of states are requiring boater education courses for anyone under 21 operating a boat. When we were in FL my wife's youngest daughter said she wanted to do it so she could take the boat out on her own. I signed her up but she never bothered to take it. Since the money was paid I took the course and got the little certificate. Funny thing was, that little certificate qualified me for a break on the boat insurance. They didn't care about my USCG 50 ton Ocean Operator's license but valued a 6 hour safe boating course.
     
  13. Ol Timer

    Ol Timer ↓ hog hunter ↓ Millennium Member

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    I must agree with the salesman and disagree with the previous posters. A four stroke engine will always have a better torque curve than a two stroke of equivalent power, especially at bottom end.

    And be sure to bring up the fact it's near the end of the season in your negotiations.

    Good luck.
     
  14. Just1More

    Just1More

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    $50,000 for a 19' boat? Seems very high.
     
  15. scottlang

    scottlang Millennium Member

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    I do not want to say boating is expensive, but some say it is an acronym for Break Out Another Thousand.
     
  16. jhoagland

    jhoagland That's right! Lifetime Member

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    Quoted for truth.

    I have a 10 yr old 140 Sazuki that runs like a scalded dog. On calm water going with the wind I've hit 49knts/hour. 18' DC seapro.