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For The 9mm Guru's

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by firedawg60, Mar 3, 2010.

  1. firedawg60

    firedawg60

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    Ok, maybe a silly question. What is the difference between a 9mm and a 9X18? I'm seeing some pistols, usually Europen, that are 9X18. Can you shoot a 9mm through it? Thanks.
     
  2. 481

    481

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    Not a stupid question. Actually a good one.

    It has to do with bullet diameter and case dimensions.

    9mm (aka 9x19, 9mmParabellum, 9mmNATO, 9mm Luger) has a bullet diameter of 0.355"

    9x18 gets tricky 'cause it can be either the 9x18 Makarov (most common in the US) which has a bullet diameter of 0.363" or it can be the 9mmULTRA (not typically found in the US) which has a bullet diameter of 0.355"

    .380Auto (aka 9x17, 9mmKurz, 9mm Browning Short) is quite common in the US and also uses a bullet of diameter 0.355"

    Loaded ammunition in the 4 listed calibers above is not interchangeable under any circumstances even though there may be some commonality amongst them where actual bullet diameter is concerned.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2010

  3. firedawg60

    firedawg60

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    Thanks for the reply 481. This is what I was looking for. Safe shooting.
     
  4. English

    English

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    481,
    A very complete reply. I did not know about the 9mmULTRA. Thank you for a bit of knowledge that is not easy to come upon!

    firedawg60,
    You did not ask, but the other significant factor is that the power of the Makarov is part way between the 9x19 and 9x17. It was designed to be as powerful as possible for a blow back action pistol in a reasonably small size. There are manufacturers who make 9x19 and even .45ACP pistols with blow back actions but they do so by the expedient of making the slide very heavy and therefore less useful as a carry piece.

    A blow back pistol has the inherent advantages of accuracy and cheapness of manufacture since the barrel is fixed. It disadvantage is that it does not reduce felt recoil as well as the Browning style locked breech action. Since accuracy is not a high priority in a pocket pistol and since KelTec showed that small locked breech pistols could be made cheaply with modern manufacturing methods, the raison d'etre for the 9x18 has disappeared. A smaller lighter pistol than the Makarov in 9x18 can now be had in 9x19 with no more felt recoil than the Makarov.

    English
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2010
  5. 481

    481

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    dawg-

    You're welcome.

    English-

    The 9mm ULTRA was first intended for the Walther PP in '72, finally fielded it in '75 for the West German Police Forces and it was discontinued shortly thereafter. Typical ULTRA performance is a 0.355" 124 gr. FMJ @ 1075fps (328 mps) for 318 fpe. Apparently SIG chambered some P230s for it, too.

    The 9mm ULTRA is a neat round conceptually.

    In terms of KE and muzzle velocity, it "splits the difference" 'tween the 9x19 and the 9x18 Makarov almost matching the 9x19 for KE and exceeding both the 9x18 Makarov and the .380 in velocity and KE from an 18mm (0.720") case. "Parabellum performance" from a "Makarov length case" as it were.

    Hell, alot of the 9x19 124 gr. FMJ stuff that I see and shoot nowadays struggles hard to break the 1100 fps/333 fpe performance threshold so the old 9mm ULTRA is pretty dang impressive arrangement for a "pocket gun cartridge", IMO.

    Kind of a shame it never caught on.
     
  6. SIGShooter

    SIGShooter Hucklebucks

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    Great information 481!

    Could you tell me what the 9MM Police is? I was at a gun show a while back and they had some of this on sale. German made, IIRC it was a yellow box. Didn't really look into too much. But I've been curious tutu find out what exactly they are.

    TIA!
     
  7. agtman

    agtman 10mm Spartiate

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    Yep, good response, 481.

    Just FYI, but there's also another "9mm" cartridge out there, and that's the 9x25 Dillon. It's a true 10mm case necked down to 9mm/.355cal.

    Primarily developed for use in high-end IPSC 1911s running compensators. Hot stuff too, judging by the fps/fpe stats. :shocked:
     
  8. 481

    481

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    SS-

    More games? I see :shame: what you are up tutu! :supergrin: Quite the fixation you have with that garment. :whistling:

    In answer to your question above-

    It's the exact same cartridge.

    The 9mm Ultra's "genesis" was its initial submission in 1936 as a service cartridge for the German Air Force. Never officially adopted in that role, the design languished until the early 1970s when it was "resurrected" as a "more powerful" :upeyes: alternative to the .32 Auto and .380 Auto cartridges typically carried by European LE personnel. It was intended to improve terminal effectiveness yet still remain capable of fitting into pistols of similar dimension that were calibered in the .32 and .380 calibers. The motivation for its development was not all that dissimilar to that which fueled the development of the .40S&W and the .357 SIG cartridges in the 1990s; maximized performance in the smallest dimensional platform possible.

    Besides SIG, Benelli made pistols calibered in the 9mm ULTRA/POLICE, IIRC.

    Last factory load I saw was Fiocchi 124 gr. FMJ @ 1050fps. That was years ago at a gunshow in another state. :dunno:
     
  9. Free Radical

    Free Radical Miembro Antiguo CLM

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    I learned something here today. :wavey:
     
  10. SIGShooter

    SIGShooter Hucklebucks

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    Thanks for the information!!!

    I couldn't resist tutu mention something about it!!!

    Thankfully I wasn't drinking my coffee at the time of reading your response!!!
     
  11. 481

    481

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    After all the flak that CM caught from you in the other thread regarding such "outerwear", you doubtless understand my vigilance in such matters. :supergrin:

    I am not about tutu be caught in one of your diabolical verbal traps! :winkie:
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2010
  12. HollowPoint .45

    HollowPoint .45 NRA Member

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    9x18/9mm Mak on the left 9x19/9mm Luger on the right

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2010
  13. SIGShooter

    SIGShooter Hucklebucks

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    :rofl::rofl::rofl:

    Yes sir!