FMJ Effectiveness: .45 ACP vs. 10mm (Flat Point)

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by AR-Tenner, Jul 7, 2016.

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  1. .45 ACP 230gr Round Nose FMJ

    8 vote(s)
    32.0%
  2. 10mm 180/200gr Flat Point FMJ

    17 vote(s)
    68.0%
  1. AR-Tenner

    AR-Tenner

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    Hi everyone,

    I have just in the last few weeks come up with a question to which I cannot find a useful and informed answer. That question is; if you are stuck with FMJ, would the .45 ACP (standard 230gr ball) be better because of the obvious wider diameter and heavier weight, or would the 10mm or .40 (180/200gr fmj) win out because of the flat point of its standard ball round?

    I had always taken it for granted that the .45 was the king of FMJ pistol effectiveness, and while I carry with 230gr gold dot and have it stacked deep, one big reason I got into the .45 was that even the FMJ practice anmo was a pretty decent manstopper.

    I have been reading recently, however, about the relative efficacy of flat point solids for hunting in big bore rifle cartridges, and how that bullet shape had the effect of crushing and cutting tissue, giving good wound tracks. I am wondering whether anyone has experience with these two rounds side by side, and particularly if someone had tested them on gel and compared the wound track diameters.

    There is also a flat point 230gr FMJ for the .45 from Nosler, but it is quite expensive, while 10mm flat point fmjs are cheap and plentiful.

    Thanks in advance [​IMG]
     
  2. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Size of the flat point will have the biggest affect. Neither is likely staying inside a human target.
     

  3. cougar_ml

    cougar_ml

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    It probably depends on how many people you want to go through. If you only want to go through the first one then .45 makes a bigger hole, but like fred said, it's probably going to depend on the flat point. If you plan on going through 2 or more people then I'd go with the 10mm. (that's supposed to be sarcasm btw, I'm just not very good at it)
     
  4. pochis

    pochis

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    I also go for 45acp this is right that caliber it nocks a bad guy for a loop, I will also add here hps are great but I would not feel under gunned with fmj 45. jmo
     
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  5. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    "King of FMJ" still means a lousy round for self-defense. I would not be swayed to go with one or the other caliber simply because of a slight edge in FMJ effectiveness.
     
  6. Berto

    Berto woo woo

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    Most game hunters will observe benefits from a flat point whereas the gello crowd will say it's meaningless... like others said , it'd really depend on the size of the meplat I'd think.
    Between the two assuming typical range ammo I'd still rather have the bigger heavier slug.
     
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  7. happie2shoot

    happie2shoot

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    Right, it is the size of the meplat, speed and weight of the boolit,
    anyone that has shot anything with a variety of boolits know it.

    This is a great read on the subject,

    http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/methods.html#lbt

    Even a smaller meplat can do much damage if driven fast enough,
    that's how some of the smaller bullets/boolits can do much damage
    compared to some of the slower fatter ones.

    If I could post some pictures on here I would show a fat rattlesnake
    that got shot yesterday by a 131gr RF boolit shot from a 9mm cylinder
    in a 357 mag BH, it made some large holes, it was doing around
    1350fps, will chrono it tomorrow to make sure.

    Look at the damage this fn boolit did to this elk from a 357 rifle, I had
    nothing to do with this elk kill, it's just used to show what a smaller
    fn boolit can do. On the ranch that I live we have done the same
    thing with nearly the same boolits.

    http://www.mountainmolds.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=155&p=388&hilit=elk+shot+with+a+357#p388

    RN bullets suck, anyone that does not don't take my word for it go
    shoot something and find out for yourself.
     
  8. barth

    barth

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    45 ACP 255 gr +P Hard Cast Flat Point.
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Railsplitter

    Railsplitter

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    I think the combination of speed and FP give the 10mm the edge in fmj, that said I think a lighter faster 165gr fmj would be more effective than the 180gr both are going to over penetrate.
     
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  10. happie2shoot

    happie2shoot

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    Yes, it's a combination of meplat, speed and weight, the weight is not as important in
    vertical targets, it is on big game though.

    A small fast meplat can do more damage than a slow big meplat.
     
  11. TN.Frank

    TN.Frank "Don't Tread On Me!"

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    If you'd have put a Flat Point 45 vs a flat point 10mm then I'd have gone for the 45 but if it's a FMJ, i.e. round nose 45 vs a flat point 10mm then the flat point should win out every time.
     
  12. Glock 23 Nutter

    Glock 23 Nutter

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    CCI Speer Lawman .45 ACP 230 Grain +P Flat-Nose TMJ

    [​IMG]

    :supergrin:




    GR
     
  13. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Even gel testing shows the flat point crushes more tissue, the RN just pushes it aside. The larger the meplat the greater amount of tissue that gets crushed. FMJ sucks, but if I had to use one, I would pick flat point 45.
     
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  14. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Small targets always react out of proportion when struck by high vel bullets. Why so many get excited shooting a 1gal jug of water with a high speed jhp. It just doesn;t translate to targets over 150# or so.
     
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  15. SDGlock23

    SDGlock23 JABRONI AUTIST

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    .45 especially with a flat point FMJ, bigger bullet will make bigger hole.
     
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  16. Berto

    Berto woo woo

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    Agree , the only caveat might be the tendency for rn to tumble...probably meaningless with a fat 230gr slug.
     
  17. elstupido

    elstupido

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    40 or 45.....flip a coin. I choose 40 with a few extra rounds.
     
  18. fredj338

    fredj338

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    This is often touted about 9mm ball but a tumbling bullet is also failing to penetrate. One reason dangerous game guys like heavy caliber flat points. The bullet drives in a straight line for max penetration & you also get more crushed tissue.
     
  19. Berto

    Berto woo woo

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    I'd be surprised to see that touted WRT 9mm. I've seen such with the old .380 British/ 38/200 load or the .38sp super police with a long round nosed soft lead slug.
    Whole different thing when talking dangerous game.
    Between the OPs choices, which infer basic range ammo...which in the case of 10mm typically means .40sw level 180 or 200Gr I'd be just fine with ball in 45acp.
     
  20. pochis

    pochis

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    railspliter, to my understanding from some serious shooters with military background tell me in 45acp the slower rds have a tendetcy to stretch the cavity back on entry and when they go through it opens a verylg whole. kinda makes sense but that's to advanced for me. lol. just a thought.