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Discussion in 'Political Issues' started by Kuroineko, May 29, 2020.
Do you think/suspect that pressure was put on the med examiner to change his/her findings?
As far as I'm aware, there was simply more, and more detailed information released today.
I'm not aware of anything that was changed.
Still no mention of toxicology report?
Actually flipping him over does present a danger. Prisoners fo kick and buck. Many cops have been injured that way. They also have a supernatural way being able to just pop up and run/fight while still handcuffed.
It’s a risk. On his belly, it’s hard for him to kick. That’s probably why his was held, belly down.
Medical examiner said the same thing with Eric Garner.
Well, it says fentanyl intoxication. That's effectively heroin, or could actually be worse than heroin wrt: pulmonary depression. Stuff just turns breathing off. The level of fentanyl in his bloodstream will be an issue, cuz the question still remains, would a non-intoxicated person in 'average' health have had cardiopulmonary arrest and death in the same circumstances?
Regardless, I think Keith Ellison's takeover of the case taints it permanently. There will be no fair process here, the thumb is on the scale.
They kept him prone for 3 minutes AFTER he was unresponsive.
Even if you want to try to argue they were justified until they point (and given that he was already cuffed, they had 3 officers to restrain him, he had already expressed respiratory distress, and the dangers of prone restraint are well known, I think its a losing argument) there's obviously no defending it after he's freaking unconscious.
Does it matter?
If you punch someone in the head who is on blood thinners and they die, is it any less of a homicide if someone not on blood thinners would have survived?
You think the decedent's health issues didn't matter in the Eric Garner case?
Punching someone in the head is an intentional act. Neither charge against Chauvin alleges he intended to cause death. It's a question of negligence, reckless disregard for life, etc. In that context, it would be very relevant to know if he reasonably believed his actions were something the average, non-doped, healthy person can endure. So, yes. It matters.
So is keeping your knee on a proned prisoner's neck for 3 minutes after they go unresponsive.
Well since prone restraint in general is known to be dangerous, let alone continuing it not only after a person expresses that they can't breathe, but for 3 minutes after they go unresponsive after stating they can't breathe, I think he's going to have a hard time arguing that he reasonably didn't understand the risk.
Well gee Sharkey, now we've got two autopsies neither which said anything about excited delirium.
You still trying to beat that drum?
Well now we've got two autopsies which determined that the compression of his back and neck were in fact causal factors.
Gee willikers you boys got this wrong!
Hey, I'm pretty much in agreement with you there. He definitely has some explaining to do. But I'm not assuming the role of juror and I haven't seen all the evidence, including his testimony of how the incident transpired for him. What was going on, his concerns, his reasons for restraining Floyd the way he did, etc. He might have good explanations for every last one of your concerns. Or he may not. Normally, I'd say he gets his day in court. But with Keith Ellison handling the case, there's no way a fair trial happens. Chauvin is a sacrifice to the mob. His only hope at this point is the other two cops also get arrested and charged equally.
I assume we're talking about the official medical examiner's report, not the paid prostitute
"expert" report. Because the official medical examiner's report said "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression." That's subdual, restraint and neck compression, i.e. neck compression's just a part of it. I never said the knee on the neck didn't play a role in the big picture, I said there's no evidence to show the knee on the neck contributed any more than the other two officer's restraining efforts.
And there still isn't.
Well, seeing as we're talking online and my opinion isn't convicting him, I will say with confidence that I've seen enough evidence to draw a conclusion and that there is absolutely nothing he could say that I would reasonably expect to somehow make his actions acceptable.
If I were on his jury, I would of course listen to his defense and consider it. I can't imagine what legitimate defense he could possibly have, but I would listen to it.
I'm not familiar with Keith Ellison, but I don't think Chauvin is being sacrificed. I think he actions were blatant and caught on film and he has only himself to blame for his predicament, and eventual conviction.
Um, yea there is. Two autopsies carried out by separate parties both cited it as a factor.
I have no interest in an autopsy paid for by Ben Crump.
Is Chauvin being provided his own autopsy expert??
Well the private autopsy and the county autopsy were in agreement, so.....
Really? One says cardiopulmonary arrest involving police restraint, fentanyl in the system, methamphetamine use, hypertension, heart disease. The other says asphyxiation, caused by pressure on the carotid causing decreased blood flow to the brain (which would be strangulation which the official medical examiner ruled out).
I think they can be distinguished, substantially.
Yup. I called positional asphyxia the minute I saw the video. Slam dunkage.