Florida Teachers: Better Grades, Better Pay

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by AA11285, Apr 9, 2010.

  1. AA11285

    AA11285

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    http://dailycaller.com/2010/04/09/florida-gop-pushes-through-merit-pay-bill-for-teachers/

    "Hailed as a way to reward the state’s best teachers, the proposed law would base half a teacher’s evaluation on students’ test performance. Instead of the current system, which rewards teachers based on years of experience, advanced degrees and extra certification, proponents say newer teachers could make more money earlier in their careers if their students are successful."

    Seems like this should have been implemented years ago. I work in corporate america, and my pay (and my job) is only secure as long as I perform. I think if teachers are held to the same standard, this great country of ours wouldn't be trailing behind almost all other developed nations in education.
     
  2. Marine8541

    Marine8541 iseedeadpeople

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    You can take the best teachers from my kids school district where the kids are over achievers and college bound and send them to Denver and the kids in Denver won't perform any better. Plenty of bad teachers but many more bad parents.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2010

  3. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    The problem is that students' test scores are not a good metric for teacher performance.
     
  4. SPDMTL

    SPDMTL

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    I think most teachers "perform" everyday at a top level.
    It's still up to a students performance to make that teacher look good.
    A class full of students that don't want to learn to still a classroom full of students that don't want to learn. How about "special ed" teachers? I don't mean this as a joke but, are they held to the same guidelines? Who then, would voluntarily teach "at risk" kids w/no direction?
     
  5. frank4570

    frank4570

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    When you have dirtbag parents raising thug children, it isn't the teachers who should be punished.
     
  6. Gino

    Gino Millennium Member

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    As a Florida teacher for the last 23 years, this scares the hell out of me. What I do is more of an art than a science, it can't really be measured like this.

    What this is going to do is pay all of the honors teachers more money, just like every other attempt at merit pay. And no one will want to teach in poor, lower achieving schools.

    I don't teach honors classes, so I will have no chance of getting the money. So what will happen to teachers like me, who teach regular kids? Hell if I know...
     
  7. longhair

    longhair

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    Who gets to decide which students are in the class? If all the academically gifted are in one class, that would definetly boost that teachers scores. Way too many variables involved for this to work. Best way is performance reviews by peers and administration.
     
  8. 8-Ball

    8-Ball Old Soul

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    Yea good idea, just let the (less than honorable) teachers give students the answers.

    That would raise grades, thus giving teachers more pay. Doesn't really help the kids, though, does it?
     
  9. Z71bill

    Z71bill

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    No matter what system you use to pay teachers it will not make much difference. Because

    Unionized government workers = fail.
     
  10. 2afreedom

    2afreedom

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    I agree that we need some basic performance standards even for government employees but isn't pay for performance for teachers sorta like paying cops based on the percentage of crime reduction in their patrol area? While there are some variables the teacher can control there are many others he or she have no control over (parental support, learning disabilities of the students, bad administration). I absolutely agree we need to weed out bad teachers but when you have to include ALL children of a certain age in the classroom there are just too many variables to use standardized test scores as the only measure of performance.

    <<<<is not a teacher (nor do I want to be).
     
  11. moeman

    moeman

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    Teachers in school districts w/ a significant number of English second language kids or poor parts of town where there are a lot of kids w/ a single parent raising the kids would be screwed.

    I think grades should a part of how to evaluate teachers but not the only metric. In the dumpy, urban areas just getting a kid to show up all the time and get C's can be viewed as a tremendous success. These teachers are keeping kids off of the streets rather than shilling crack since minors don't do hard jail time.

    Simple answers for complex problems probably won't work.

    With all that said, dead weight teachers should not be protected just due to tenure.
     
  12. Glenn129

    Glenn129

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    Spot on and a big part of a child getting educated, but as a former teacher I can tell you there are teachers that work their heart out to teach and help children, and some that are at a school to get the check for which they are under qualified to receive. I have seen some fat chicks never get out of their desks unless it is time to go the the govt. cafeteria, and this puts a burden on the children and the next teachers of these children.
     
  13. Glenn129

    Glenn129

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    Georgia has tried a system similar to this and had some school systems like Atlanta City, Dekalb Co., and Albany, GA (the worst offenders) which have been accused of altering the answers on the standardized test of students so they could get more money in their pay check in the form of a bonus. You are welcome to look at the demographics of these school systems. I shall not say a word about the ethnicity of the schools for fear of some people labeling me with a bad word.
     
  14. ICARRY2

    ICARRY2 NRA Life Member

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    What kind of job do you have? And can you explain how you are evaluated?
    What variables can you control and cannot control?

    Are you in a supervisory position and can you terminate a subordinate whose performance affects your pay?

    If you are/were in a supervisory position and a staff was assigned to you that you could not fire, how would that affect your pay? Keep in mind some of your staff speaks limited english, have physical/mental disabilities, act irrationally, and their mommies and daddies have no problem yelling at you because their child's pay check is not $500 for the week (ie A+), but only $250 (ie D-). And it's all your fault because your a lousy boss!

    Despite the fact the child was late three times this week, came to work hungry because there was no food in the house, did not complete all of the work you assigned, took a ten minute smoke brake every hour, a long lunch and fell asleep twice during a training session because mommy and daddy were up late the night before partying with friends.

    Now everyone wants you fired because they think your a bad boss and a bosses pay should be based soley upon the performance of their staff.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2010
  15. dac1204

    dac1204

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    I just moved to Florida in March. This is the worst thing to do in my opinion. Most teachers will simply walk off the job due to not getting paid enough. I am from Forest Park Georgia and know a guy who taught in the Atlanta School system for exactly 1 year before he quit. A student that he had problems with on a daily basis came to class one day, put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger. The gun did not go off because it jammed but he took the kid down and never returned.

    Now take teachers that actually put up with that on a regular basis and tell them they are not going to get paid unless the students get good grades. What would you do in that situation? If I had a degree in anything I would not put up with that for little pay. Just a thought
     
  16. Calhoun123

    Calhoun123

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    My state is trying to pull this crap. My wife is a teacher at a private school after getting fed up with public school after 7 years. In my state the Dept of Education tells you what to teach, how to teach it, when to teach it, how much time to spend, and then they want to grade you on your student's performance. Think about it, if they perform poorly, who's performance does it reflect? The teacher is nothing but an intermediary without any say in the process. It isn't like when we where children and the teacher's did it all on their own.

    My wife was a special ed teacher. If she had a 3rd grader who was mildly mentally retarded, the state required her to teach the child "on grade level" and administer state standardized tests without accommodations. So, she has a child that can't write the alphabet and she is required to grade the child on proper composition of multi-paragraph stories. This makes sense how?
     
  17. FL Vet

    FL Vet

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    Has anyone seen the movie "Stand and Deliver"? I highly recommend it for those that believe that the bottomless pit we fill with money in our education system is the best solution. Throwing money at a problem doesn't fix it. Merit based pay would certainly correct this problem, because it gives teachers the opportunity to teach and work for their pay, instead of just collecting a guaranteed check.
     
  18. RedTop

    RedTop

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    This is really what it boils down to. The system now-a-days only seems to teach kids how to pass tests.

    Agreed… See response to DevilDog.

    Spot on Glenn129! You also forgot Clayton County.
     
  19. Jon_R

    Jon_R

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    I guess we will see what happens. I have 3 kids in FL public schools. Lot's of doom and gloom about using this program.

    If we don't use this system then what should we use to measure performance of teachers? I keep hearing not this but I have not heard anyone saying that offer something else.

    Many said the same about the FCAT. It is terrible to have standardize tests to objectively measure students across the state on taking the same test. Of the people complaining I never heard a suggestion what else to use to achieve the goal just that what was picked is bad.
     
  20. dac1204

    dac1204

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    No disrespect to you but you don't know how teachers and schools work now do you? Students will only learn what they want to learn and thats it. Does it make sense to make the teacher pay because the student does not want to learn English this year?


    Its not like 40 years ago when every kid went to school and graduated. That time is over because the parents now just don't care anymore. They let their kids do what ever they want with no accountability. If they go with this plan this is what will happen: 1. teachers will quit or retire if they can except the ones that have all honor students, 2. No other teachers will come to teach here because they wont make any money.

    I don't know who thinks teachers make millions of dollars but they don't. Most teacher I know spend between 3 and 5 thousand dollars of their own money for school supplies every year. They get 250 free copies a month from the school and then have to start paying for their own paper and ink. They have to buy pens, paper, books, makers, pencils, etc for the students that can't afford them. Believe it or not, not all parents can afford that stuff and somebody has to pay for it.

    People that wonder where the money is often complain about the teachers but forget they are the bottom people. The school districts and the boards of education are the ones that need to be held accountable. Fire the school board and give that money to the teachers to they have what they need.

    rant off/