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Flooring Question...

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Jim B in CO, Mar 19, 2010.

  1. Jim B in CO

    Jim B in CO

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    I'm going to install a new floor in my upstairs bathroom. It's now sheet vinyl over plywood. My plan is to put mortar over the vinyl then screw down backerboard on top of the mortar. I'll be using 1/4" backerboard and 1-1/4" screws. My question is this: is there any way to make sure I don't damage anything below the plywood with the screws? Do water supply lines and/or electrical wires typically run below the floor? Obviously, the sewer line for the toilet is below the plywood and I'm going to try and be really careful where I put the screws in that area.

    Thanks in advance! :cool:

    Jim
     
  2. BobbyS

    BobbyS Truth always sounds like lies to a sinner

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    Yeah electrical wires can and do run between floors. Why are you putting morter down on the vinyl?
     

  3. Tongo

    Tongo

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    Not a pro by any means, just a do-it-yourselfer. Can you locate the floor joists and just put the screws in at those location?
     
  4. BobbyS

    BobbyS Truth always sounds like lies to a sinner

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    Yeah what Tongo said. If you screw the backerboard to just the subfloor the screws will more than likely work themselves loose cause the subfloor mat'l is probably plywood. Plywood doesn't hold a screw very well.
     
  5. Jim B in CO

    Jim B in CO

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    That's what Hardie recommends. A little extra labor/material but it shouldn't be too much of a hassle...
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2010
  6. Jim B in CO

    Jim B in CO

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    Does anyone know if code requires them to be a certain distance from the plywood above the joists?
     
  7. Jim B in CO

    Jim B in CO

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    I'm thinking that's a good way to go. I haven't tried finding the joists with my stud finder yet. Hardie (the backerboard manufacturer) states the screws should be placed in a specific pattern (which, I'm sure, wouldn't line up with the joists) but I may not worry about sticking strictly to that pattern. :dunno:
     
  8. tnhawk

    tnhawk

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    Codes vary from different cities and states. A good start would be the National Electrical Code.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2010
  9. That's all Brother

    That's all Brother

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    Yes. My NEC and IRC are at work , but I'm pretty sure it's 1 1/2". You can also use a approved nail plate or sleeve when a wire or pipe crosses through a joist. Simpson makes them. I would be safe and try to nail into the joists.
     
  10. Jim B in CO

    Jim B in CO

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    Thanks for the info. :thumbsup: Into the joists it is. Now I just have to locate them...:whistling:
     
  11. Southpaw69

    Southpaw69

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    Are you sure they glued the vinyl directly onto the main subfloor? They should have sheeted it with a thin underlayment, if they did, go ahead and pull up the underlayment and vinyl. You do not want to install backer/tile over possible particle board. Also think about how much higher the floor will be after you install the backer and tile.

    Your subfloor should be atleast 3/4 in. plywood, it's probably 1 1/8 t/g. By the time you screw that 1 1/4 screw into the backer(1/4) then the plywood you don't have to worry about hitting anything underneath.

    What's important is the deflection of your wood subfloor. http://www.thetiledoctor.com/installations/deflection.cfm Check this article, it gives an easy test to check it out. Too much deflection and your grout and tiles could crack, not good.

    It's very important that you screw the backer board just like Hardibacker says, they mark the top of the boards to make it easy. If you go with less by trying to hit the joists, there could be movement and that will also cause failure. Using the printed dots as a guide, fasten HARDIBACKER ® sheets with proper nails or screws (as listed in "Materials Required") every 8" over the entire surface. Keep the fasteners between 3/8" and 3/4" from sheet edges and 2" in from sheet corners.

    Hope you have a smooth install.

    After 20 years of installing floors, that's the first time i've heard that one. What makes you think plywood won't hold a screw very well?
     
  12. dac1204

    dac1204

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    I am assuming that you are going to be setting tile? If so then you will need to make sure that the vinyl is down good if you are going to go over it with thinset. You want to make sure you are also using muti purpose thinset rated for wood and the like. What ever you do DO NOT JUST SCREW THE HARDI BACKER AT THE JOIST.
    They are usually 16" on center and that is not enough for your floor. I would take the vinyl up if its not down good. I would screw the sub floor down with atleast 2" deck screws to eliminate sqeakes then use the hardi backer screws to put it down with.

    All the thin set does is 1. helps to level any minor dips or humps, 2. creates a good bond coupled with screwing it down, and 3 also helps with and minor sqeaks from the new floor its self moving.

    There is basiclly two types of thinset but get the muti purpose for all of it (versabond comes in a green/grey/white 50lb bag). If you do not use it or use the cheaper stuff(made for just concrete) there is a chance that your floor will start to come up after some time. The versabond is about 13 bucks a bag and one should do a small bath with the tile and hardi back.

    The hadi backer screws should be the 1 1/4" and with 3/4" sub floor and 1/4 hardi backer you wont have a problem unless you have raident heated floors.
     
  13. dac1204

    dac1204

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    I've got 8 years with tile and hardwood and Ive never heard that either.

    Screws are what hold well

    By the way you beat me to posting
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2010
  14. Jim B in CO

    Jim B in CO

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    I'm using polymer/latex modified mortar. Mapei Ultraflex 2, to be exact. From what I've read, it's supposed to be pretty good stuff.

    Thanks for the info guys, this is exactly what I was looking for. :cool:
     
  15. dac1204

    dac1204

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    Yep that will work the same. Versa bond is just made by customs thats all and sold at home depot while mapei can be had at lowes.

    I really would take that vinyl up it wont take much more time and will be done right.
     
  16. dac1204

    dac1204

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    I will tell you a tip with mapei do not add too much water. It mixes different then othe thinsets. The same with their grouts. A little goes a long way

    Their grout will be harder to grout with then customs as it dries faster, but if its a big area just grout alittle at a time.

    Also that hardi absorbs water like nobodys business so spread a little at a time or spread it on the tile.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2010
  17. Southpaw69

    Southpaw69

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    Hah, looks like we posted at the same time. I also use the versabond just because it's good and a bit cheaper than the ultraflex.
     
  18. Jim B in CO

    Jim B in CO

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    Definitely setting tile (marble). Once I get the vanity and toilet removed, I'll take a look at the vinyl. If it's not down really well it sounds like I'll have to get rid of it. Also sounds like I need to stick to the screw pattern on the backerboard and not just screw to the joists. Again, this is excellent information and I really appreciate it!
     
  19. dac1204

    dac1204

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    Yea mapie can be alittle pricey. Hows the jobs around your area? Are they still going strong?
     
  20. dac1204

    dac1204

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    With marble what ever you do make sure that you level each one when using small joints because if you dont the end result will look and feel like crap.

    No one understands why I charge double for marble. It can take along time on bad floors.

    Marble also looks better with smaller grout joints (1/16") when using smaller joints you can use unsanded grout and on marble you will want to.