Glock Talk banner
101 - 120 of 121 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
630 Posts
Did you read about the convenience store attendant who just sat on the floor and let the robber do whatever he wanted?

Well, the robber did whatever he wanted and that included shooting the attendant in the back of the head.

Someone flashes a gun at me in a parking lot, that is a threat of deadly force, I am now in fear of death or great bodily harm, and the law allows me to respond with appropriate(deadly) force.
Or does it? Never argued it’s better to fight a DA or a jury vs fighting a would be attacker. Just played devils advocate when I said that a “gun flash” doesn’t give you a blank check to shoot someone. You absolutely have the right to defend yourself but don’t for a minute think any good deed goes unpunished. There is an insane amount of red tape that will be had and it’s dependent on SO many factors beyond your control. Should you lay down and die? Absolutely not, never said that one time. What I did say is that a weapon flash may not be considered imminent danger by the legal system and be prepared for yet another fight. Here’s some resources, it’s mind numbing

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39,330 Posts
Or does it? Never argued it’s better to fight a DA or a jury vs fighting a would be attacker. Just played devils advocate when I said that a “gun flash” doesn’t give you a blank check to shoot someone. You absolutely have the right to defend yourself but don’t for a minute think any good deed goes unpunished. There is an insane amount of red tape that will be had and it’s dependent on SO many factors beyond your control. Should you lay down and die? Absolutely not, never said that one time. What I did say is that a weapon flash may not be considered imminent danger by the legal system and be prepared for yet another fight. Here’s some resources, it’s mind numbing

Well sure, assume you will be arrested, maybe go to jail, more than likely sued by the dead guys family but still all better than being dead. You have waffled on this since the thread started, maybe seeing the compliant clerk shot has moved you? How anyone thinks the guy committing the crime is going to stop at just one crime is amazing to me. Putting your life in the hands of a piece of social crap just seems kinda stupid, but we all make choices.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39,330 Posts
Sure, know your state’s laws.

I know mine. I can use deadly force if threatened with the same.
Ah see that is the debate. Is showing a gun a threat? In itself, no. Accompanied by a demand for your property, yes it is a threat that can be justified as a use for deadly force. After all, he isnt showing me the gun because he thinks its cool. The implication is if you dont give me your stuff i will shoot you with this gun I have in my pants. More than enough to justify use of force to defend yourself IMO. Obviously the DA in your area may disagree, ask the bodega owner in NY that was obviously defending himself, but that is the nature of our messed up legal system. Yes, voting matters. If you own guns or care about crime, you should never be voting De, but they do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
630 Posts
Well sure, assume you will be arrested, maybe go to jail, more than likely sued by the dead guys family but still all better than being dead. You have waffled on this since the thread started, maybe seeing the compliant clerk shot has moved you? How anyone thinks the guy committing the crime is going to stop at just one crime is amazing to me. Putting your life in the hands of a piece of social crap just seems kinda stupid, but we all make choices.
You’re entitled to your opinion on waffles, I prefer mine with maple syrup. Maybe your reading glasses don’t work or you’re just too myopic to understand my point. Whatever the case is, I don’t really care but I’ll state it again.
It’s not cut and dry when it comes to someone flashing a gun at you! It does not give you carte blanche to be the judge, jury and executioner. If you choose that path (more power to you) be prepared to face the consequences. It may not be your life, but it could be your freedom and your finances. In the end, the decision is yours. Not all car jackings are cut and dry and there are opportunities to diffuse the situation by simply handing you vehicle over. Not all robbers are murderers…should you stop and ask? NO. Not what I’m implying. Have some awareness and in the moment he prepared to follow your intuition, your spidey sense if you will. Not everything ends up like the OK Corral except for here in fantasyland where a bunch of GT cowboys shoot ‘em all and let god sort them out, free of any consequence by the law (because they know their rights by golly).

I’ve been in situations where my street smarts have outplayed my fighting or shooting skills. I trust my ability to read and react and will play it as such. If I believe I can simply give a bad guy my vehicle and it ends the situation, I will gladly do it. I’ll make that gamble depending on the situation. Now if I don’t think in that millisecond that my response will end it, then I’m happy to respond with complete and utter violence. Firearm, fist, rock or teeth, I’ll go out trying, believe me.
I made the comment that the scenario changes if I’m with my family, I will not gamble in that case and take my chances in an orange jumpsuit if necessary. My awareness or kindness isn’t weakness. I speak to my abilities and no one else’s and that’s my inherent right, correct? We love to preach freedoms here on GT, am I allowed to respond to the way that I see fit? I NEVER said you should or anyone else. I made the case that with a “flash” it may not be so cut and dry and it could be state dependent and who knows with the jury and legal system these days. Somehow the media makes martyrs out of POS scumbags who are the perpetrators but somehow get painted into being the victim. God forbid you end up on the wrong side of some prosecutor who looks to make an example of you. Especially if it was just some kid “flashing” an airsoft pistol at you. That possibility more then exists, you’re entitled to think that gives you the right to shoot first but in the eyes of many laws, it most definitely doesn’t.

Is that clear or am I still waffling? Otherwise I guess I’m too thick to articulate my point
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
630 Posts
Ah see that is the debate. Is showing a gun a threat? In itself, no. Accompanied by a demand for your property, yes it is a threat that can be justified as a use for deadly force. After all, he isnt showing me the gun because he thinks its cool. The implication is if you dont give me your stuff i will shoot you with this gun I have in my pants. More than enough to justify use of force to defend yourself IMO. Obviously the DA in your area may disagree, ask the bodega owner in NY that was obviously defending himself, but that is the nature of our messed up legal system. Yes, voting matters. If you own guns or care about crime, you should never be voting De, but they do.
In your opinion, exactly. Just because YOU believe it to be doesn’t make it true. Listen, I’m sure you’re a nice guy and I appreciate your enthusiasm. I was only attempting to make a counterpoint because as the saying goes “there’s two sides to every coin”. I don’t know how to be more clear.
Again, may none of us (or our loved ones) ever be in this situation. Good day
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,854 Posts
Not all car jackings are cut and dry and there are opportunities to diffuse the situation by simply handing you vehicle over.
Armed carjackings pretty much are. If an armed carjacker is distracted as I am handing my vehicle over I would shoot him. Not going to give him the opportunity to kill me so he has time to get away and use my vehicle.

Not everything ends up like the OK Corral except for here in fantasyland where a bunch of GT cowboys shoot ‘em all and let god sort them out, free of any consequence by the law (because they know their rights by golly).
You shoot an armed carjacker and you just don't have to worry about it in most places.

If I believe I can simply give a bad guy my vehicle and it ends the situation, I will gladly do it. I’ll make that gamble depending on the situation.
Fine and well. Your plan might succeed but if it does not life goes on. Your wife will probably remarry and someone else will be raising your kids.

God forbid you end up on the wrong side of some prosecutor who looks to make an example of you. Especially if it was just some kid “flashing” an airsoft pistol at you. That possibility more then exists, you’re entitled to think that gives you the right to shoot first but in the eyes of many laws, it most definitely doesn’t.
I would worry too if I lived in Colorado. But I don't. Some kid trying to carjack me with an airsoft pistol made two bad decisions. He can reflect on that if he survives. Airsoft pistols look real enough to probably fool me. I don't think you get, or maybe just don't like, in a great many places folks are not going to be prosecuted for shooting a carjacker.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39,330 Posts
You’re entitled to your opinion on waffles, I prefer mine with maple syrup. Maybe your reading glasses don’t work or you’re just too myopic to understand my point. Whatever the case is, I don’t really care but I’ll state it again.
It’s not cut and dry when it comes to someone flashing a gun at you! It does not give you carte blanche to be the judge, jury and executioner. If you choose that path (more power to you) be prepared to face the consequences. It may not be your life, but it could be your freedom and your finances. In the end, the decision is yours. Not all car jackings are cut and dry and there are opportunities to diffuse the situation by simply handing you vehicle over. Not all robbers are murderers…should you stop and ask? NO. Not what I’m implying. Have some awareness and in the moment he prepared to follow your intuition, your spidey sense if you will. Not everything ends up like the OK Corral except for here in fantasyland where a bunch of GT cowboys shoot ‘em all and let god sort them out, free of any consequence by the law (because they know their rights by golly).

I’ve been in situations where my street smarts have outplayed my fighting or shooting skills. I trust my ability to read and react and will play it as such. If I believe I can simply give a bad guy my vehicle and it ends the situation, I will gladly do it. I’ll make that gamble depending on the situation. Now if I don’t think in that millisecond that my response will end it, then I’m happy to respond with complete and utter violence. Firearm, fist, rock or teeth, I’ll go out trying, believe me.
I made the comment that the scenario changes if I’m with my family, I will not gamble in that case and take my chances in an orange jumpsuit if necessary. My awareness or kindness isn’t weakness. I speak to my abilities and no one else’s and that’s my inherent right, correct? We love to preach freedoms here on GT, am I allowed to respond to the way that I see fit? I NEVER said you should or anyone else. I made the case that with a “flash” it may not be so cut and dry and it could be state dependent and who knows with the jury and legal system these days. Somehow the media makes martyrs out of POS scumbags who are the perpetrators but somehow get painted into being the victim. God forbid you end up on the wrong side of some prosecutor who looks to make an example of you. Especially if it was just some kid “flashing” an airsoft pistol at you. That possibility more then exists, you’re entitled to think that gives you the right to shoot first but in the eyes of many laws, it most definitely doesn’t.

Is that clear or am I still waffling? Otherwise I guess I’m too thick to articulate my point
Your cute BS aside, no one ever said its just about flashing a gun. IT was about armed robbery or car jacking. So no you were waffling. It isnt about property theft but threatening ones life with the ability to carry it out. At that point, in less than 1-2sec, you have to make a decision to comply & hope for the best or take immediate action & hope for the best. SO put your life in your hands or the whim of the attacker. Its really that simple. I see no diff in defending my family or myself, other than trying to make sure my family isnt in the line of fire. I could find dozens of such incidents.
Philadelphia carjacking: Victim shot even after giving up his car in Mantua, police say - 6abc Philadelphia
Rash of Carjacking Incidents Occurring Across the US (sacramentoinjuryattorneysblog.com)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
630 Posts
Your cute BS aside, no one ever said its just about flashing a gun. IT was about armed robbery or car jacking. So no you were waffling. It isnt about property theft but threatening ones life with the ability to carry it out. At that point, in less than 1-2sec, you have to make a decision to comply & hope for the best or take immediate action & hope for the best. SO put your life in your hands or the whim of the attacker. Its really that simple. I see no diff in defending my family or myself, other than trying to make sure my family isnt in the line of fire. I could find dozens of such incidents.
Philadelphia carjacking: Victim shot even after giving up his car in Mantua, police say - 6abc Philadelphia
Rash of Carjacking Incidents Occurring Across the US (sacramentoinjuryattorneysblog.com)
I’m flattered you think I’m cute Fred.

I did Fred, I said it was about flashing, ME. That was my whole ****ing point.
Should I scour the Internet and bombard you with links about people who lived to tell another day after they were car jacked? Surely I could, would that be even cuter?
You win Fred, you are right. Right as rain, Fred. You defend your ridiculous point like you defend your imaginary parking lot shootouts. To the end Freddy Boy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
630 Posts
Armed carjackings pretty much are. If an armed carjacker is distracted as I am handing my vehicle over I would shoot him. Not going to give him the opportunity to kill me so he has time to get away and use my vehicle.



You shoot an armed carjacker and you just don't have to worry about it in most places.



Fine and well. Your plan might succeed but if it does not life goes on. Your wife will probably remarry and someone else will be raising your kids.



I would worry too if I lived in Colorado. But I don't. Some kid trying to carjack me with an airsoft pistol made two bad decisions. He can reflect on that if he survives. Airsoft pistols look real enough to probably fool me. I don't think you get, or maybe just don't like, in a great many places folks are not going to be prosecuted for shooting a carjacker.
no real response for you, but I do appreciate the breakdown. In all seriousness, that’s some quality work. How many edits did that take you? I’d have been at that all night.

amen on Colorado, we can agree on that
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
630 Posts
Hey give it a rest you don’t have to be rude everyday of your life.
Man, you are uptight. I was paying him a compliment. I couldn’t respond to a post like that if I tried and was curious how he broke down each section. I can actually agree to disagree without getting my panties in a wad. You should try it.
He actually replied calmly, and I wished him a good evening but you were too busy jumping on me to notice…

Guessing you earned your username? No one commands you to read what I write OR respond. Don’t like it, don’t read it. Preach liberty and tell people how to respond because don’t like it? Get bent bud
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
544 Posts
Man, you are uptight. I was paying him a compliment. I couldn’t respond to a post like that if I tried and was curious how he broke down each section. I can actually agree to disagree without getting my panties in a wad. You should try it.
He actually replied calmly, and I wished him a good evening but you were too busy jumping on me to notice…

Guessing you earned your username? No one commands you to read what I write OR respond. Don’t like it, don’t read it. Preach liberty and tell people how to respond because don’t like it? Get bent bud
Actually it was the cumulative tone and tenor of your posts on this thread. You might want to ease up on the “ stack “
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39,330 Posts
I’m flattered you think I’m cute Fred.

I did Fred, I said it was about flashing, ME. That was my whole ****ing point.
Should I scour the Internet and bombard you with links about people who lived to tell another day after they were car jacked? Surely I could, would that be even cuter?
You win Fred, you are right. Right as rain, Fred. You defend your ridiculous point like you defend your imaginary parking lot shootouts. To the end Freddy Boy
Thx for admitting i am right Julie.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
630 Posts
Actually it was the cumulative tone and tenor of your posts on this thread. You might want to ease up on the “ stack
Is that an anabolic steroid innuendo? Oh you’re funny, surely someone of my physical stature and temperament must be on the “juice”? I’ll happy post the pics of my epic battle with cancer last year and the strides I made to get back the body that chemo and radiation took from me.
Don’t think you know me for a second you know me or pretend to have me summed up because I vehemently disagree with your myopic stance on handling an imaginary situation. You’re as guilty as I am in making it personal but you’ll never admit to it, and that’s ok. Your ship as sailed and no one’s expecting you to fix anything, that burden is no longer yours though you grasp like hell thinking you have all of the answers. I’m actually questioning my own sanity as i exchange yet another diatribe with you.
Shame on me for taking the bait though…it’s like a pack of old frumpy wolves in here that circle together because they’re too frail and weak to hunt on their own anymore. I’m sure my day will come too when I’m old, scared and alone too. I can’t say I blame you, heck, I almost feel sorry for you. You play judge, jury and executioner on my perceived tone and tenor, just as well as you do on owning the “right” way to approach the entire original subject matter.
Trust when I say my narrative voice isn’t nearly as intense or raged up as your imagination is making it out to be. Sadly you don’t own that type of power…it’s all good buddy I promise. I’m sorry the culmination of my responses invoked such fragility in you. Hopefully the intensity you’re feeling will rapidly dissipate (if not, try loosening your sock suspenders, that might help).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
544 Posts
Is that an anabolic steroid innuendo? Oh you’re funny, surely someone of my physical stature and temperament must be on the “juice”? I’ll happy post the pics of my epic battle with cancer last year and the strides I made to get back the body that chemo and radiation took from me.
Don’t think you know me for a second you know me or pretend to have me summed up because I vehemently disagree with your myopic stance on handling an imaginary situation. You’re as guilty as I am in making it personal but you’ll never admit to it, and that’s ok. Your ship as sailed and no one’s expecting you to fix anything, that burden is no longer yours though you grasp like hell thinking you have all of the answers. I’m actually questioning my own sanity as i exchange yet another diatribe with you.
Shame on me for taking the bait though…it’s like a pack of old frumpy wolves in here that circle together because they’re too frail and weak to hunt on their own anymore. I’m sure my day will come too when I’m old, scared and alone too. I can’t say I blame you, heck, I almost feel sorry for you. You play judge, jury and executioner on my perceived tone and tenor, just as well as you do on owning the “right” way to approach the entire original subject matter.
Trust when I say my narrative voice isn’t nearly as intense or raged up as your imagination is making it out to be. Sadly you don’t own that type of power…it’s all good buddy I promise. I’m sorry the culmination of my responses invoked such fragility in you. Hopefully the intensity you’re feeling will rapidly dissipate (if not, try loosening your sock suspenders, that might help).
LOL
 
101 - 120 of 121 Posts
Top