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Oh I decipher it, no need for sadness.

What’s sad is all of the “shoot first, ask questions later” mentality. I’ve clearly said (despite the accusations of being an “effing liar”, which frankly crushed my feelings) that I’m a staunch supporter of being an armed carrying citizen who possesses a CCW and takes an EDC everywhere I go.

I don’t know how to make it any clearer that the flash of a gun from some scared **** bag doesn’t illicit a response from me to start shooting away. More power to you if it does. I trust my intuition and my ability to read and react.
I get that tight kilts and the effervescence of moth balls may have worked with Father Time to slow down your response abilities, but until my day comes, I’ll play it as I see fit. Want the car, take it. It’s insured. No way out and I know it’s going down, I’ll go down on my feet. I trust myself to make that distinction when the time comes…what’s sad is you can’t. My guess is that there’s a bunch of armed scared citizens out there similar to yourselves. And I’ve said again and again and again. You have the freedom to choose how you want to respond. I don’t $hit all over your choices (until now) so don’t have the “gall” to $hit all over how I choose to respond. I’m still here aren’t I?
Maybe it’s because I’m not in a scared victimized mindset?

So many architects of the correct and only way to do things. Clearly sacred old white dudes…
Check my avi, I’m the same, but different. Call my confidence my undoing, so be it. Meanwhile, stay frosty you never know where danger lurks

Clearly you and PEC are responsible for the rules of engagement and we should all pay close attention. Gall? $hit.
I merely played the other side of the coin. Again, may you never find yourself in that situation. That I truly mean. I do believe an armed society is a polite society but I guess I don’t rattle quite like you, and that’s ok. You do understand that, right? How I choose to respond is my phuqing choice?

Rattling sabres with a bunch of Internet strangers over an imaginary situation that I pray none of us will ever be in may be my undoing tonight. I bid thee all a farewell to this thread and good luck. Especially you Memphis, I think you’re going to need it…
Hmmmmm interesting view , very nice touch referring to your avatar. Food for thought if you are getting “ jacked “ the odds that the perp decides to cap you is greater than a “ regular “ old man. Don’t think for a min that violent criminals are not very very good at picking out the sheep. Robbing a “ tough guy “ is more likely to have the added benefit of some “ street cred “
something to ponder
 

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Oh I decipher it, no need for sadness.

What’s sad is all of the “shoot first, ask questions later” mentality. I’ve clearly said (despite the accusations of being an “effing liar”, which frankly crushed my feelings) that I’m a staunch supporter of being an armed carrying citizen who possesses a CCW and takes an EDC everywhere I go.

I don’t know how to make it any clearer that the flash of a gun from some scared **** bag doesn’t illicit a response from me to start shooting away. More power to you if it does. I trust my intuition and my ability to read and react.
I get that tight kilts and the effervescence of moth balls may have worked with Father Time to slow down your response abilities, but until my day comes, I’ll play it as I see fit. Want the car, take it. It’s insured. No way out and I know it’s going down, I’ll go down on my feet. I trust myself to make that distinction when the time comes…what’s sad is you can’t. My guess is that there’s a bunch of armed scared citizens out there similar to yourselves. And I’ve said again and again and again. You have the freedom to choose how you want to respond. I don’t $hit all over your choices (until now) so don’t have the “gall” to $hit all over how I choose to respond. I’m still here aren’t I?
Maybe it’s because I’m not in a scared victimized mindset?

So many architects of the correct and only way to do things. Clearly sacred old white dudes…
Check my avi, I’m the same, but different. Call my confidence my undoing, so be it. Meanwhile, stay frosty you never know where danger lurks

Clearly you and PEC are responsible for the rules of engagement and we should all pay close attention. Gall? $hit.
I merely played the other side of the coin. Again, may you never find yourself in that situation. That I truly mean. I do believe an armed society is a polite society but I guess I don’t rattle quite like you, and that’s ok. You do understand that, right? How I choose to respond is my phuqing choice?

Rattling sabres with a bunch of Internet strangers over an imaginary situation that I pray none of us will ever be in may be my undoing tonight. I bid thee all a farewell to this thread and good luck. Especially you Memphis, I think you’re going to need it…
Personally, I would likely do the same. Too many unknown factors to say for sure exactly what my response would be (whether my wife or grandkids with me, or just me, spicy senses kicking in that is going to be a gun fight like it or not and many other factors) but if possible to deescalate and give up the car I would do so. Things can get out of hand very quickly when one chooses to escalate a situation involving guns. Flashing a gun, to me, is an indication the BG would prefer not to use his gun, for whatever reasons. That said, no one will win this argument because it will depend on too many variables and you could be damed if you do and damed if you don’t. Deescalate whenever possible.
 

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yeah I agree,

One big surprise that we can’t forget ,,, if the episode is all caught on camera.

We know how those Videos can be picked apart during the after process.

Especially if the brandishing wasn’t caught on Camera, the brandishing was very so slight.
Which is fine, my gun isnt coming out until I think it needs to go bang. If that happens, I hope there are video cameras running. "Oh yeah, he gave verbal commands, tried to create distance, nothing worked & then the gun came out".
 
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Personally, I would likely do the same. Too many unknown factors to say for sure exactly what my response would be (whether my wife or grandkids with me, or just me, spicy senses kicking in that is going to be a gun fight like it or not and many other factors) but if possible to deescalate and give up the car I would do so. Things can get out of hand very quickly when one chooses to escalate a situation involving guns. Flashing a gun, to me, is an indication the BG would prefer not to use his gun, for whatever reasons. That said, no one will win this argument because it will depend on too many variables and you could be damed if you do and damed if you don’t. Deescalate whenever possible.
I dont thing that is the correct take away. Plenty of reason to not just pull the gun out & point it. In states with a lot of ccw or con carry, you may catch a bullet. So starting out just showing is pretty smart move to avoid escalation, but dont be fooled that compliance is saving your ass these days. I would call it 50-50. I trust my skills over my attackers benevolence. It becomes a play stupid games win stupid prizes for the attacker. If he is showing you his gun & talking, you have an advantage on your draw. Its hard for the untrained brain to do two things at once; talk & draw. Engage the bad guy in some stupid conversation & then go. We've done in in training drills/fof, yeah it works & everyone knows its going to happen, but still works. Or, draw while he is talking & making demands. If you are any good, 100% win.
 

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The fact that these two clowns had significant criminal histories is, in hindsight, disturbing and shows thst they‘re nothing better than violent career criminals, but the victim would not have necessarily known that at the time of the car jacking.
I pointed out their histories only to show how lucky she was. It is not necessary to know anything about someone in order to defend yourself.

While crooks generally have their MOs, there’s no cookie cutter scenario for use of self defense other than the presence of ability, opportunity,and jeopardy - all at the same time.
A carjacking pretty much is a cookie cutter scenario for using deadly force as far as I am concerned.
Might be some rare exceptions but for the vast majority of them all three elements you mentioned would be obviously present. What won't be obvious is if the criminal is only after one's vehicle.
 

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I pointed out their histories only to show how lucky she was. It is not necessary to know anything about someone in order to defend yourself.



A carjacking pretty much is a cookie cutter scenario for using deadly force as far as I am concerned.
Might be some rare exceptions but for the vast majority of them all three elements you mentioned would be obviously present. What won't be obvious is if the criminal is only after one's vehicle.
looks like she made a great move to secure her life, verses her property if these were real life threatening bad guys
 

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I missed it ,,,when did the gun come out ?
No my point is my gun isnt a threat tool its a defensive tool. If the situation has gone so bad, It comes out, its more than likely going bang.
 
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Good point,
Do you think the mindset when carrying a firearm should be a passive attitude or a more confident attitude?
Should your CCW give you confidence when carrying ?
Your ccw isnt to get you deeper in trouble but to get you out. It gives you an option the non ccw doesnt have. Old people, fat people, people with kids, cant run. Many times a swift & aggressive offense beats a poor, compliant defense.
Sure you are rolling the dice, but if you are trained & skilled, it seems to me a better choice than letting the criminal decide my fate. Regardless of what some think rather magical ability to read people is, fact, you have no idea what your attackers past has been or what he intends to do after you comply. If they have killed before, they have no issue doing it again.
For the unskilled, untrained person that carries their rabbits foot g42 in their pocket, you might need another choice. The avg ccw or leo isnt very skilled. Training is great, but without developing the skills, your ability to implement your training is very limited. So train, practice, repeat. It gives you more options In a potential fight.
 

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Good point,
Do you think the mindset when carrying a firearm should be a passive attitude or a more confident attitude?
Should your CCW give you confidence when carrying ?
I guess it depends on what you mean by passive attitude. Projecting a passive attitude to the bad guy might mean he figures he can do what he wants, and you won't do anything about it.

You can matter- of-factly let someone know you don't want any trouble in a confident way that lets them know you are not afraid of them.
And yes, your CCW should absolutely give you confidence but only if that confidence is well founded. While it is not a magic talisman, it is still a deadly weapon. Someone armed with a suitable weapon and skill to use it is a real force to reckon with. If one does not carry a weapon they have confidence in than they should get a better one providing it really is subpar. If they are the problem, then they should do something about it.
The attitude one projects should be the same. The bad guy won't know if you are armed or not and if one carries themself well then that will go a long way in not being chosen as a victim in the first place. Most bad guys are looking for weakness and have time to select an easier looking target.
One should have confidence in their weapon as long as it is realistic and not a false sense of confidence. That takes a decent weapon in one of the calibers deemed acceptable by respected experts. There is no way around putting in the time and burning a lot of powder to become proficient with your weapon. Training under pressure helps everyone. Good training that is. Especially those that have been blessed with a life devoid of violence. Being able to act reflexively frees someone from trying to process what to do when the right thing to do is shoot. The person that has experienced trouble knows if he will function, but I do think someone that has lived a sheltered life can have a realistic assumption they will act properly if they get good training. Training is a word that does not convey much. Seems all some training I hear about does is interfere with some folks natural God given self-preservation. They end up with a mindset too passive to act. Like some that go to off college and get all their smarts educated out of them. I don't understand why someone would live in an area that would prosecute an obviously good shoot. That is all the situational awareness I would need to avoid trouble, sell out, and leave. No reason I can think would keep me there. Not my own family or a career. Wife wants to live around family then they could sell and move too, or they or she could visit. Plenty of places that are still free and I would not risk my life, freedom, and happiness for anyone's wants. The lack of confidence I have seen in threads here over the years from some living in those places shows how stifling they are.
Even if well founded - having confidence in your weapon and your ability to use it only goes so far. I consider it a minimum standard. Learning how to avoid or manipulate a situation so you won't be forced to instantly defend yourself is a different matter. The thought of being eaten alive is motivation enough for some to learn all they can before going into bear country. The thought of being disfigured, maimed, or perhaps a slow painful death by bad people is enough to motivate some to take self-defense more seriously than others too.
 

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You draw and fire and the bad guy is still essentially “holstered”, they’ll arrest you for murder.
Unless you’re lucky enough to live in a “stand your ground state” (I believe there’s somewhere around 30).
You give them your keys and send them on their way, no car (or any material possession) is worth your life. Now if they try and grab your kid, or your dog…bring on the charges or whatever else they want to throw at you. I’ll take my chances…
Did you read about the convenience store attendant who just sat on the floor and let the robber do whatever he wanted?

Well, the robber did whatever he wanted and that included shooting the attendant in the back of the head.

Someone flashes a gun at me in a parking lot, that is a threat of deadly force, I am now in fear of death or great bodily harm, and the law allows me to respond with appropriate(deadly) force.
 
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