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"Fixing" Male dogs

Discussion in 'Woof Memorial Critter's Corner' started by HarlDane, Feb 5, 2006.

  1. HarlDane

    HarlDane

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  2. TenMillimeter

    TenMillimeter

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    Absolutely! If that dog gets out and impregnates an un-altered female, each owner is responsible for the unwanted pups. Any pet in my family that doesn't live in an indoor cage (hamsters, guinea pigs, etc.) gets altered.

    It's just responsible ownership. My dogs don't run loose, trample my neighbors flowers, or crap in their yard either. When they bark incessantly at night, they get a tap on the window as a warning, and they know the next time it'll be a serious butt chewing.
     

  3. groundhawg

    groundhawg

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    will you provide links to unbiased studies that show a spayed/neutered dog is happier or healthier? ive heard this argument before and have yet to see proof via a study or a "smiling" dog. maybe its a "man thing" but the thought of cutting off my nads dosent seem like a good idea or even remotely make me smile.
    my experience with neutered/spayed dogs is that they loose a bit of "spark" in their personality [sorta like a eunuch] and they tend to get fat. dont we castrate bulls to make them grow? neutered males are easier to control just like the eunach guards that protected the queens and princesses of days past but if you could ask a dog im guessing he would decline your offer.........
     
  4. HarlDane

    HarlDane

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    http://www.spca.cambridgeweb.net/neutering.html
    http://www.sonic.net/~cdlcruz/GPCC/library/neuter.htm
    http://www.vetinfo.com/dneuter.html#Neutering
    http://espn.go.com/outdoors/sportingdogs/s/sd_fea_VP_spay-neuter_JL.html

    I could go on and on. The American Veterinary Medical Association, the American Kennel Club (AKC), the SPCA, every breeder and vet that I have ever talked to, and more or less ANY other group associated with the Health and Wellbeing of Dogs all say the exact same thing….Get your dog fixed.

    Fixing a dog does not make them fat or lazy (A crappy diet and not enough exercise does that). In some breeds (dominate protective breeds) the dog should be allowed to Mature emotionally and physically before being altered, but by 1 1/2 years old all dogs should be Altered unless they are apart of a breeding program. Just stopping your dog from hopping the fence to try and chase down every female in season should be reason enough. The number one thing alteration stops is dogs being hit by cars.

    I understand that there are Male hang-ups about castrating your dog, and one can not help feel that they are taking the "Manliness" out of their dog. But it is better for the dog and owner.
     
  5. HarlDane

    HarlDane

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    oops double post.
     
  6. El_Ron1

    El_Ron1 AAAAAAAAGHHH!!!

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    Wow, everybody's doing it, and everybody says to do it!!! Sig Heil! Big deal. Whatever, you do as you wish, stay the hell out of my dogs lives. After 35 responsible years with "un-neutered" males, I'll be the judge of what happens to them and when.;Q
     
  7. HarlDane

    HarlDane

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    Look I am not trying to run your life. Do what ever you want to do, it's your dog.
    THIS IS A PETS FORUM, we talk about issues relating to pets.
    I am trying to have an honest open POLITE talk about an issue. If you’re just going to get all worked up and defensive, and not even bother to post any REASONS why you feel as you do. Then why even bother to post in the first place?

    By they way if you could post even just one link to back up your side please feel free do so. I am here for facts and information on the issue.

    I guess I am just going with the crowd, but that crowd is full of experts in Dog Behavior and Nutrition. I guess I'm also stupid for listening to my Doctors when it comes to my own health.



    "Sig Heil!" Thank you for proving Godwin's Law true with your Nazi reference.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
     
  8. Jaegergirl

    Jaegergirl Proud2BAmerican

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  9. Jaegergirl

    Jaegergirl Proud2BAmerican

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    i am not fully convinced that is the case. my dog is still intact. i plan to keep him that way until he gives me a reason to get him fixed and he is quite happy. ;) i am not a breeder nor do i plan to become one (i purchased my rottie with a no breeding contract which i am honoring and he also has a limited AKC registration). my dog does not roam free, is not outside unsupervised and is never off lead so the chance that he'll impregnate a female dog is about zero. he is also very obedient and well trained which i attribute to our 3 years of obedience training so if we are out and about (on lead, of course) and there is an unaltered female nearby, i am in control of the situation at all times.

    i belong to a dog forum and this discussion always comes up. time and time again i walk away not convinced that altered male dogs are healthier and happier than intact, especially when several experience owners (and breeders) of the breed don't agree with the whole "healthier and happier" concept. and i'm a female so i don't have that whole "male hang up" about the matter. sure, some vet might feel that way (which mine doesn't) but some vets also say that eukenuba and science diet are excellent foods and from the research i've done, i think they are crappy foods... so just because a vet says it's so doesn't necessarily mean that it is.

    owners of intact dogs must be very vigilant to make sure they don't end up with unwanted litters. it takes responsible ownership and there are those of us who are perfectly capable. so i do not believe it is fair to say "if you don't breed then you must neuter."

    :)
     
  10. El_Ron1

    El_Ron1 AAAAAAAAGHHH!!!

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    I was, and am far from worked up, sorry if my post appeared defensive, because it wasn't. Your posts seem to point to some kind of need for a critical crusade for which you have the sole solution. As to "an honest open POLITE talk about an issue",
    to me, these statements, along with your initial use of the soapbox gif, appear to indicate your mind is already made up and you are not willing to discuss or consider any other opinions. Of course we know, all breeders are responsible and dedicated animal lovers...

    Frankly, I find this kind of absolute, black or white argument very interesting within the overall confines of a firearms forum. Wouldn't we all avoid many significant risks if we just eliminated guns? With execeptions for law enforcement and the military of course. Following your train of thought, after all, their are experts in these kinds of matters.

    As to providing "even just one link to back up my side", I'm just not a stick my finger in the air to see which way the wind is blowing kind of guy. Feel free to research supportive or opposing data if you wish.

    No one but you has introduced a reference to the Nazi party here, perhaps wikipedia could help you explain why...

    Don't expect to lay down the subjective opinions that you have in this thread and not be challenged, let's agree to disagree with a minimum of rancor out of respect for Eric's board.;c Reply or not as you will, but I am not going to engage in any further tit for tat. You will have no problems finding plenty of folks who will if that is your desire. I would presume that you really do care about dogs and wish to do right by them. On that point we are in total agreement. Take care.;c ;c
     
  11. groundhawg

    groundhawg

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    well i read your "proof" and generally found it as the "same old thing" with questionable merit. i dont have the time or energy to pick apart each article but i would ask you to read the links you provided with an open mind. humor me and play the devils advocate.
    with regards to neutering,they all said "reduced risk of testicular cancer" makes sense, the testicles are gone. they also basically backed up my eunuch point. the dog dosent fight,wander or chase the girls because he no longer cares. this makes for an "easier" pet to have.
    the third link seems to be the most reasonable and well rounded.
    it says that spaying has the most benefit in spay vs neuter . you will reduce mammary cancer in the females but sometimes get an increased risk of urinary incontinence, agression and weight gain.
    you dont "alter" an animal without risk.
     
  12. HarlDane

    HarlDane

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    hmmmmm

    ;Q
     
  13. mitchshrader

    mitchshrader Deceased

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    neutered should have the right to neuter their pets as well.

    i mean, if it's good enough for YOU, it's good enough for your dog.

    you don't see it that way?

    hope i don't become emperor of the world. :)

    and, for the record, i've raised way more than dozens of dogs.. and many, perhaps most, 'pet' owners are incompetent by default, havn't a clue, and shouldn't have animals.

    they don't harm em on purpose, but they aren't aware of what a 'good life' would be for a pet, and provide what amounts to animal welfare. yes, for those folks, neutering pets makes all sorts of convenient sense.

    so does abortion, mercy killing, and genocide, for about the same soulless reasons. i sort of would rather not. you want to whack off an animals gonads, and can justify that in your world view as 'humane'..

    i'm not going to argue with you, you're dangerous. and i will consider you so, thank you very much for the warning.
     
  14. HarlDane

    HarlDane

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    I expect to be challenged, and welcome opposing views, but those who do not share my views have offered little in support of their position. I have gotten everything from "cut off your own and then say it’s a good thing" to "my dog is just fine intact" but little in the way of any actual benefit to leaving a dog intact. The only reason so far that I have seen put forth is that dogs loose their "Spark". If by spark they meant aggressiveness (which I do not believe the poster did) I might agree, but I have not seen any loss of character in any neutered male personally, and have read in several places that it is a misguided fear. But am curious to see other information if anyone could post a link.

    To be honest, I had no idea this issue was so controversial. I thought it was like smoking, in that it was general knowledge that altering a pet is for the best, and even those that did not do so, knew that they were not doing the best thing, but for personal reasons chose to ignore it.

    I have also noticed that the controversy seems to be centered around Male dogs. If it was better for the animal to be left intact (which I believe is what some are claiming here), why not leave females that way as well. Obviously it would be much more of an inconvenience to have an unaltered female around than an unaltered male. But that should be of little concern to someone with their animal’s best interests in mind.
     
  15. HarlDane

    HarlDane

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    On this we agree.


    I assure you I am not Dangerous, and don't see how my views on fixing pets would make me so. But if labeling me as dangerous instead of meeting my arguements with a couter arguement is what you want to do, feel free.
     
  16. G20man32904

    G20man32904 Deceased

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    I'm just going to stick my nose in here one time and then I am out...
    For the masses of sheeple out there, yes please spay and neuter your dogs.


    For those of us that put the time effort and energy into proper training and upbringing of a dog I see no benefit what so ever. If my dog were to come down with testicular cancer then I would immediately seek to remove the problem, barring that, if he came into this world with them, then he is leaving with them.


    Jaegergirl, you inspired me to post.
    Thanks
     
  17. groundhawg

    groundhawg

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    rc, have you read your own links with a questioning mind as i requested?
    it seems to me that people sometimes come up with a "radical" idea and then immediately write a paper or nowdays an internet blog and there conjecture becomes fact. in the 70s dr.benjamin spock wrote about how wrong it was to spank a child and it was readily accepted as fact by some, after all a dr. said it was true. as i understand dr. spock later recanted and said he was wrong.
    its common in america to dock tails and ears after all its better for the dog."decreased ear infections and tail injuries" are cited as proof that it is the smart humane thing to do for your dog. is it?
    when reading your links, i saw "a study showed" or "in this dr.s opinion" with no real facts in black and white.
     
  18. scowall

    scowall

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    i am a responsible breeder, as well as a rescuer of German Shepard dogs,the owner of all dogs that leave my care sign a contract to train or either get training for their dog, if they cannot or do not know were to get the proper training i will help with that, most but not all are sold with a neutering agreement, i will take care of that at about 16-18 months. the pups that are not going to be "fixed" are sent to Germany to be trained for at least an obedience title and a sch1 title if they are going to be breed stock. IMHO all German Shepard dogs and others who are meant to work, should be trained to work, thats what the dogs really love. i have no doubt that most people are responsible owners who do not let thir dogs run free and i thank you for that..........scott
     
  19. HarlDane

    HarlDane

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    I understand that a lot of times the "New and Improved" way to do things are really not the best way to go. And that the rantings of a few people is not something to form an opinion around. But my opinion on neutering dogs is not based on just one or two Vets or Breeders giving their opinions on some website. I really can not find even a single group that advocates leaving non breeding stock un-altered. Almost without fail all breeders that I have talked to in the process of buying my dogs have required neutering contracts, and limited registration for all but a select few animals that were generally placed with other breeders. The more I read on dogs the more opinions I get. Every topic from training methods, to nutrition has 100 different opinions written about them by professionals. But when it comes to altering pets, they come to an almost unanimous conclusion.

    I believe you will find MUCH more disagreement on this topic than neutering. It is a subject that i encounter regularly being that I own a Great Dane.
     
  20. Jaegergirl

    Jaegergirl Proud2BAmerican

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    sure, no problem. :)