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I'm your huckleberry....
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A compelling body of evidence from anecdotal as well as organizational studies shows that the fight is likely to happen with the interested parties separated only by a few steps.

Yet serious shooters of every stripe tend to spend most of their time training outside of this bracket and anchor their practice at seven to ten yards. I noticed this a while back and began working to plug the hole. The Five-Yard Roundup is part of the result, and it is working well.


Just read this. Good info from Tom Givens.

https://www.swatmag.com/article/fiv...rce=newsletter&utm_campaign=A9486&vsoid=A9486
 
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One needs less practice @ 5y than 7 & beyond imo. If you are good at 10y you are better at 5y, just faster in my experience. If you suck at 7y, you will suck at 5y, the distance diff isn't great enough to gain improvement. Not knocking the drill, but I think it is overstating a "weakness" that probably doesn't really exist among upper level shooters.
 

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One needs less practice @ 5y than 7 & beyond imo. If you are good at 10y you are better at 5y, just faster in my experience. If you suck at 7y, you will suck at 5y, the distance diff isn't great enough to gain improvement. Not knocking the drill, but I think it is overstating a "weakness" that probably doesn't really exist among upper level shooters.
I agree to a large extent, until you get inside of 5 FEET. Then it becomes a combatives issue that many "gun people" lack the skill, stamina, or stomach for.
 

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I agree to a large extent, until you get inside of 5 FEET. Then it becomes a combatives issue that many "gun people" lack the skill, stamina, or stomach for.
Inside 5ft may likely require open hand skills to get the gun into play. The actual shooting though is not difficult for most avg shooters. The speed limit would be though. I know people that can not clear their holster & get a single hit in 3sec @ 15ft.
 

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A compelling body of evidence from anecdotal as well as organizational studies shows that the fight is likely to happen with the interested parties separated only by a few steps.

Yet serious shooters of every stripe tend to spend most of their time training outside of this bracket and anchor their practice at seven to ten yards. I noticed this a while back and began working to plug the hole. The Five-Yard Roundup is part of the result, and it is working well.


Just read this. Good info from Tom Givens.

https://www.swatmag.com/article/fiv...rce=newsletter&utm_campaign=A9486&vsoid=A9486
Good link. I was reading that the other day, have it open to a tab on my phone, been meaning to try it sometime at the range.

So many standard tests or comparisons or drills use 10 yards or even farther, but when you look at defensive pistol shoots so many are closer and much faster, yet still benefit from using the sights and making accurate-enough hits not just pointing and spraying...so aiming for a reasonably sized target fast and close is good stuff I am sure...particularly one handed.

This is why I"ve been using the Super Test and not just The Test...1/3 of the score comes from 5 yards done quite fast but without an overly large target (5.5" black circle)
 

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I'm your huckleberry....
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
One needs less practice @ 5y than 7 & beyond imo... but I think it is overstating a "weakness" that probably doesn't really exist among upper level shooters.
I think you hit on the main reason here."Upper level shooters" prolly don't need it as much but I don't think it's aimed at the upper level. I'd speculate it's to help the rest of us.... ;)
 

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I think you hit on the main reason here."Upper level shooters" prolly don't need it as much but I don't think it's aimed at the upper level. I'd speculate it's to help the rest of us.... ;)
I just think it is easier to get someone to good hits @ 5y vs 7-10y. So teaching & practicing out there does make 5y easier imo, at least from the progression of shooters I see every week. Can you miss @ 5y in a hurry, sure, bit usually it is when you add movement, which that drill does not address. I also don't see the point of emphasizing the X ring. Instead I would go 8" circle, just a stupid paper plate would work there. No scoring rings on bad guy.;)
 
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You should practice live and dry over the entire range of target size that you can call hits on. Drawing to any target within that range should be straightforward. I think the more challenging thing is transitioning around to targets of different sizes within that range.
 

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why not just do the Bill Drill.
Bill Drill
designed by Bill Wilson (sometimes erroneously credited to Bill Jordan, Bill Rogers)

Range: 7yd
Target: standard IPSC target
Start position: gun in holster, hands at surrender position
Rounds fired: 6

The Bill Drill is intended to improve speed without sacrificing accuracy. The details listed above are the traditional version, but any 6-shot drill done at speed on a single target can achieve the same basic goal.

Six shots are fired as quickly as the shooter can achieve six hits on the target. The drill teaches sight tracking, proper visual reference, recoil management, and trigger manipulation.

One important aspect of the Bill Drill is learning to follow your sights during recoil so that you can fire your next shot as soon as you have an adequate sight picture. Usually, this means pulling the trigger as soon as the front sight comes back down onto the scoring zone without waiting for precise alignment or for the sight to stop movement in the middle of the target. At full speed, the front sight is constantly moving, never coming to rest until the drill is over.
 

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I agree to a large extent, until you get inside of 5 FEET. Then it becomes a combatives issue that many "gun people" lack the skill, stamina, or stomach for.
This is where one should do a LOT of SD training. Fast and dirty. Most likely the scenario one will encounter in a stressed situation.
hogarth is very correct in stating that a large majority don't have the stomach for this, but it would be something to consider.Even the 5 yard thing is too slow. 5 seconds is an eternity at that distance.
 

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The BillDrill is setup for 10y, but could be adapted for 5 by cutting the time down. The goal @ 10y is under 3sec from holster. At 5y, sub 2.5sec is very doable.
 

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I shot this drill today cold to start my range session.
Times per string
#1 - under time
#2 - 1.96
#3 - 2.38
#4 - 1.97

Score: 97. Threw the second weak hand only shot (string #4) high as the most egregious miss. Too bad I didn't use the extra half second I had left. I was afraid of going over time after the 2.38 on the string before though.

I shot it several more times after this but did not get a better score because of inconsistent one handed shooting (and shooting too fast)

 

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Thanks for posting this. Just recently I have been given the glorious permission to shoot on 5 untouched acres here. Previously it was a DNR range. Now, I have a steel target, which I can unload a 15 round G22 at, and hit each time, with ease, at about 15yds. to the point it's boring how easy it is.

my last time out there I messed around and did some drills around my jeep, ducking for cover, shooting between random openings (top down), it's harder than you'd think hitting that little steel plate when you need to really aim and your blood is going.

I always, ever trip, make it a point to do strong and weak hand only drills, and try to get some real world experience in. this unspoiled private range however gives me a chance to work on CCW holster shooting, running an gunning so to speak, etc. I have every intention to practice not only with my CCW set up but also in full duty belt, drawing and shooting. I'm very excited. I need to build a stand for a paper target, the steel is a bit much. I'm concerned about hits on silouhette, not focused, aimed shots at a 10" plate. thats just fun for positive reinforcement's sake.
 

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One needs less practice @ 5y than 7 & beyond imo. If you are good at 10y you are better at 5y, just faster in my experience. If you suck at 7y, you will suck at 5y, the distance diff isn't great enough to gain improvement. Not knocking the drill, but I think it is overstating a "weakness" that probably doesn't really exist among upper level shooters.
Shoot Dot Torture, starts at 3 yards. It humbles most people fairly quick.


I practice from contact all the way out to about 50 yards as that's about the limit of my local range.
 

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The 5^5 drill is also good for this, especially if done from a concealed draw. 5 yds, 5 secs, 5rds, 5 inch circle, done 5 times in a row. All hits in the circle under time or it's a fail.
I used this "test" as a qualifier for my CHL folks...ran the drill "cold" immediately upon beginning the class...just line 'em up and run it...very useful to quickly reveal issues with holsters, covering garments, as well as shooting skills...many were humbled by this exercise....which admittedly does not even come close to the terror likely to be experienced during an actual life-threatening event.
 
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