[Glock_en_speil]

Fellas,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
<o></o>
Help me out here. I'm in the process of selecting my first 1911. I've been studying bac1023's excellent guide. After being caught up in the Glock Gen17 Gen4 issues (an ongoing situation I'm STILL trying to resolve almost a year later :upeyes I am looking for out-of-the-box reliability for my first 1911. I don't want to have to send it back to Colt and I don't want to bring it to local 'smith for mods. I have ruled out Kimber because of all the issues. The guys at all three of my local gun shops are even telling me to avoid them. It came down to <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Springfield</st1lace></st1:City> and Colt and I've pretty much settled on Colt based on the fact they hold their value better. That's important to me because I tend to want to trade up every so often. I've been learning towards the Colt 01980XSE from the XSE series but it has an ambi safety. Is this going to be an issue? Do all (or even most) ambi safetys come loose?<o></o>
<o></o>
The Colt 01970CY from the Special Combat Government series is the only other model I was considering because it has all the features I want but the cost is significantly more. It has an ambi safety from Wilson Combat which seems to get good reviews. I'm a right handed shooter so I don't need the ambi safety, it just seems to be standard on the guns I'm interested in. <o></o>
<o></o>
Thoughts? Suggestions? Opinions?<o></o>

 

[bac1023]

Most ambi safeties are just fine. Its generally a weak part, but it should not present a problem during normal use.

 

[CAcop]

I am left handed so ambi safeties are mandatory for me. The only problems I have had with ambi safeties have been fitting them (takes time and is never as good as one from the factory) or they will work loose (not a big deal because if you get the ones that are held in my grips yo will never know unless you take the grips off).

If I were left handed I would probably go with a left side only vs. lefty but if I really wanted a gun and it came that way I would go ahead and get it.

Bottom line: it can have issues but nothing catastrophic.

 

[Feanor]

I would strongly urge you to go Colt's over Springfield Armory, not that SA sucks outright, it's just that their QC has become real hit & miss, especially with the so-called "loaded" models.

Colt's has just added new CNC machinery, the Rail gun pictured came off of these new machines, frankly the slide to frame fit & finish is perfect, really just superb. At the seam where slide meets frame, you cannot feel it, it is perfectly fitted with no overlapping or sharp edges, equaling the work of some well known custom house efforts.

However they are not perfect, the ambi safety is just plain POS, and you'll very likely be replacing it right from the box, likely there will be some fitting required. Many also dislike the new upswept beavertail, it being loose in the frame being the biggest complaint I hear! I also am not partial to the two tone effect, though it was the only version available at that time so I bought it anyway.

Colt produces excellent barrels, the Rail gun comes standard with a national match barrel which is even better yet, so you may end up deciding on fitting a match bushing to the pistol. If you were to talk with Wilson combat, they'll likely just tell you to drop the ambi safety altogether, unless you actually need one.

One other thing, I urge you to buy this pistol from your LGS, so you can physically inspect it for all of the above, it's never wise to invest in your first 1911 sight unseen over the WWW.

Also, 1911's can be very reliable, but not always, even the very best can come with issues, unlike Glocks, most 1911's will have to be broken in and that will require shooting them, so invest in ammo, a lot of ammo!

 

[Mayhem like Me]

I would strongly urge you to go Colt's over Springfield Armory, not that SA sucks outright, it's just that their QC has become real hit & miss, especially with the so-called "loaded" models.

Colt's has just added new CNC machinery, the Rail gun pictured came off of these new machines, frankly the slide to frame fit & finish is perfect, really just superb. At the seam where slide meets frame, you cannot feel it, it is perfectly fitted with no overlapping or sharp edges, equaling the work of some well known custom house efforts.

However they are not perfect, the ambi safety is just plain POS, and you'll very likely be replacing it right from the box, likely there will be some fitting required. Many also dislike the new upswept beavertail, it being loose in the frame being the biggest complaint I hear! I also am not partial to the two tone effect, though it was the only version available at that time so I bought it anyway.

Colt produces excellent barrels, the Rail gun comes standard with a national match barrel which is even better yet, so you may end up deciding on fitting a match bushing to the pistol. If you were to talk with Wilson combat, they'll likely just tell you to drop the ambi safety altogether, unless you actually need one.

One other thing, I urge you to buy this pistol from your LGS, so you can physically inspect it for all of the above, it's never wise to invest in your first 1911 sight unseen over the WWW.

Also, 1911's can be very reliable, but not always, even the very best can come with issues, unlike Glocks, most 1911's will have to be broken in and that will require shooting them, so invest in ammo, a lot of ammo!

I see ALOT of 1911s in my classes and the recent SA guns are MUCH better than recent Colts especially in the fitting of parts.. I am talking the last year..

Many issues with Colts grip safety fitment, and ambi safeties...
I have a recent Colt Combat elite, and my Parkerized loaded is more accurate and has better all around fitting with night sights...it's just not as pretty and doesnt rust as quick....:supergrin:

 

[jrs93accord]

I have a few 1911s with ambi safeties. As a right-handed shooter, I do not have any issues with them.

 

[Feanor]

I see ALOT of 1911s in my classes and the recent SA guns are MUCH better than recent Colts especially in the fitting of parts.. I am talking the last year..

Many issues with Colts grip safety fitment, and ambi safeties...
I have a recent Colt Combat elite, and my Parkerized loaded is more accurate and has better all around fitting with night sights...it's just not as pretty and doesnt rust as quick....:supergrin:

SA is perfectly capable of putting out superior product, however in head to head comparison Colt's has better overall QC, my opinion.

Also, Colt's holds it's value far better than do SA pistols, better barrels, less MIM, and they do have the new CNC machines, the current Colt's being released to the public are among the very best I've ever seen from them, even taking into consideration the inclusion of some very chincy parts, such as we've already discussed.

 

[SpringerTGO]

If you are left handed, the ambi safety will loosen quickly with use. You said you don't want any custom work on it, but Wilson does make a reliable safety any gunsmith can install.
I don't have experience with current Colt products, but I have dealt with Springfields service department. The best any service company can strive for is to equal Springfield.

 

[Master_Blaster1911]

I see a lot of Kimbers running quite well, right there with Colt, Springfield Armory, and others.

As you can see from above, you've got a variety of opinions as to what is what in the 1911 realm.

You run the risk of getting a lemon or a gem with any manufacture. No matter what you buy someone is gonna tell you, "good choice" or say, "you made a mistake."

 

[fnfalman]

Fellas,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
<o></o>
Help me out here. I'm in the process of selecting my first 1911. I've been studying bac1023's excellent guide. After being caught up in the Glock Gen17 Gen4 issues (an ongoing situation I'm STILL trying to resolve almost a year later :upeyes I am looking for out-of-the-box reliability for my first 1911. I don't want to have to send it back to Colt and I don't want to bring it to local 'smith for mods. I have ruled out Kimber because of all the issues. The guys at all three of my local gun shops are even telling me to avoid them. It came down to <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Springfield</st1lace></st1:City> and Colt and I've pretty much settled on Colt based on the fact they hold their value better. That's important to me because I tend to want to trade up every so often. I've been learning towards the Colt 01980XSE from the XSE series but it has an ambi safety. Is this going to be an issue? Do all (or even most) ambi safetys come loose?<o></o>

I bought three brand new Colts this year: .38 Super Government Model, .38 Super El Centauro and .45 Auto Lightweight Commander XSE. So far I've blasted about 200-rounds of ball through each of them. Not high round counts, but good enough to start detecting patterns. So far so good. My only issue was/is with the XSE because it came with a wrong front sight or rear sight and shoots about 3" low. Otherwise, they all shoot tight groups and trigger pulls are decent for factory stock triggers.

Knock on wood, the ambi safety on the XSE hadn't come loose yet but I've got plan to replace it with a left side safety just because I don't care for ambi safety and the way it sticks out on the other side. I ain't a leftie, so it does me no good.

 

[swatcop]

I would strongly suggest looking at STI or Dan Wesson 1911s. I have Les Baer and Ed Brown, if looking into another and don't want to spend to much $$ I would consider STI over Colt. Take a look a Fusion 1911s also.

 

[Glock_en_speil]

Fellas,

Thanks for your thoughts. When you say the ambi safety "comes loose" I'm assuming you mean that it becomes "floppy" and won't stay in the upward position against the slide. Someone chime in if that's not correct.

I wish the gun was available without the ambi safety since I don't need it. I was thinking of possibly calling Colt and see if they would remove the ambi safety from a gun before shipping it to their distributor (at extra cost of course) but somehow I'll bet that's not going to be possible. I would probably have to purchase the gun first and then send it back to Colt for some custom 'smithing.

I'll just have to be extra careful with the safety. The gun is mostly going to be used for the range so I probably won't even need to use the safety most of the time. I've been a Glock and M&P guy for about a year now. Both of my poly pistols are 9mm. I've been renting 1911's from the local range, they have a mid level SA and a Remy R1. There's just something very satisfying about shooting 45ACP from a gun that is such an important piece of American history and yet is still so relavant 100 years later.

I'm DEFINITELY going to buy from a LGS, I'm not comfortable buying guns online. I am fortunate to live in a state with 3 shops close to each other and they all seem to have friendly sales people and all offer decent discounts. I'm also fortunate the sales tax rate in my state is 0% so that's not an issue either. The unfortunate thing is that all 3 LGS's charge a whopping $50.00 transfer fee which discourages buying the gun online but between the 3 shops you can always pretty much find what you're looking for.

 

[knedrgr]

This is just making a mountain from an ant hill.

The traditional ambi safety is design with a male and female ends. With heavy use, if anything, the female end may enlarge and become loose, (hehehe) and the right side safety will be looser and can flop around slightly. The quick fix would to tighten up the female end with some pliers and get it back into the gun. This is not a big deal.

Or just have a local smith install the single-sided safety. That's not that hard either. The only problem there is to get the new safety to match the factory finish.

 

[fnfalman]

This is just making a mountain from an ant hill.

The traditional ambi safety is design with a male and female ends. With heavy use, if anything, the female end may enlarge and become loose, (hehehe) and the right side safety will be looser and can flop around slightly. The quick fix would to tighten up the female end with some pliers and get it back into the gun. This is not a big deal.

Or just have a local smith install the single-sided safety. That's not that hard either. The only problem there is to get the new safety to match the factory finish.

Definitely mountain out of mole hill.

It doesn't require a gunsmithing degree to swap out parts on a Colt M1911, especially the safety.

Get a Colt stainless steel or blued safety lever and it'll match up to the gun (blued or SS) just fine.

 

[CAcop]

This is just making a mountain from an ant hill.

The traditional ambi safety is design with a male and female ends. With heavy use, if anything, the female end may enlarge and become loose, (hehehe) and the right side safety will be looser and can flop around slightly. The quick fix would to tighten up the female end with some pliers and get it back into the gun. This is not a big deal.

Or just have a local smith install the single-sided safety. That's not that hard either. The only problem there is to get the new safety to match the factory finish.

What he said. I am left handed and it is not a big problem. It will get loose. It might even get loose enough to fall out if you remove the grips when you clean. all it is just alittle bit of play on the left hander side. On the right hander side it stays the same. It still works. If you are right handed it will probably not even get loose or it will be very minimal.

If you are one of those people who like your guns "perfect" stay away from ambis. If you see them as tools or hobbies to enjoy you will have no problem with them. If you have it to impress your friends then avoid them unless it is going to sit in your safe anyway.

 

[FLIPPER 348]

Definitely mountain out of mole hill.

It doesn't require a gunsmithing degree to swap out parts on a Colt M1911, especially the safety.

.

this


And Colt sells the parts that will match perfectly.
http://www.coltsmfg.com/ShopOnline/tabid/62/CatID/10/Government_Model.aspx

 

[Glock_en_speil]

Well this is a little depressing . . .

After I finally decide to go for the 01980XSE Gov't Model and making peace with the fact that it comes with an ambi safety that I would have to change I now find out that this gun doesn't seem to be available anywhere and nobody seems to know when they will become available again either. :upeyes:

My first call was to Colt. A very nice customer service rep checked with the Custom Shop for me and I was told that they couldn't pre-install a standard safety however after buying the gun from my local gun shop I could buy the part directly from them and the finish would match perfectly because it was a Colt OEM part with their Colt OEM finish. Alternatively I could also send the gun in and they would install the standard safety for me for a fee (I forgot to ask how much).

So then I called the three local gun shops in my area and even a few in a neighboring state and was told pretty much the same story. "Colts are very difficult to get these days". Evidently, they produce their guns in batches and no one knows what gun is going to be produced next, how many will be produced and who they will be offered to. My favorite shop deals with 8 distributors and even they told me they have no way knowing what is going to come in from Colt and when. They said the distributors usually call them when Colts are available and let them know what has come in. If they don't buy them right away they get sold to the next shop. They rarely just sit at the distributor waiting for a gun shop to order them, at least not the full size 1911's anyway.

I did find out that one of shops nearby has a Colt Gold Cup Trophy available. It's discounted slightly from list but this store is over the state liine so I would have to shell out an additional $10.00 for shipping to a shop within my state plus $25.00 for the transfer fee. That doesn't bother me, I've purchased other guns from this shop before so I'm kind of used to having to pay a little more when I buy from them. In spite of the extra cost I've been happy doing business with them.

Does anyone have any opinions on the Colt Gold Cup Trophy? I absolutely HATE the look of the wrap around grips (they wrap around the front strap) but I'm almost sure they could be replaced with standard 2 piece grips, correct? I was thinking about "pimping it out" with carbon fiber grips anyway. It has a single sided safety which is good. I just have to make peace with the fact that it has a bare metal finish and (I assume) is subject to rusting more so than the blued finish I prefer. If I can be 100% sure I can replace that fugly wrap around grip with a normal set of two piece grips then I just may go for it. Since it's a Colt it should hold it's value so if I can't live with it and a blued Colt becomes available I could always trade without taking too much of a bath.

What do you guys think?

 

[fnfalman]

Yes, Colts are hard to come by because they don't make enough to go around. However, before you despair about not being able to get a Combat Elite or an XSE of some sort, call Boise Gun Company and ask on their Colt inventory. These people usually stock around 10-15 units of various makes and models ranging from basic Government Model to XSE (I don't recall Combat Elite but then I didn't look for one either) to Gold Cup to special commemorative/collectible gold plated royal blued models.

Call and ask for Jon, Jason or Gary and ask what they've got. http://www.boisegun.com/

Secondly, the current Gold Cups are bad to the bone. Before I got my Gold Cup, I examined 5 units ranging from early 1960s National Match (what they were called before Colt changed the name to Gold Cup) to 1970s Gold Cup to 1990s Gold Cup to current Gold Cup. I ended up buying the 1990s Gold Cup because of fund restriction. But I digress. I examined them all and the older blued ones were gorgeous and the current stainless steel ones are handsome. Aesthetically speaking, I'd take the old blued ones.

Objectively speaking, the current Gold Cup's fit and finish are just as good as the old ones while the one I got (1993) was good but not as good as neither the old nor the new. The trigger pull of the current Gold Cup surpassed all the others - I was most surprised. Pleasantly surprised.

One thing to keep in mind that Gold Cups were and are meant to be target handguns and not combat/defensive. They'd feed ball ammo, but that's probably about it. I'm sure you can throat the barrel and polish the feed ramp, but I don't know if they'd ever be reliable enough to be defensive type handgun.

And yes, you can take the FUGLY wraparound rubber grip off and put a decent pair of grips on.