Firefigher suspended for rescue....

Discussion in 'Firefighter/EMS Talk' started by Tvov, Feb 12, 2020.

  1. Tvov

    Tvov

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    Yes, you read that right. He is being docked pay and suspended for getting an elderly lady out of a structure fire.

    https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/fi...-bring-an-elderly-woman-out-of-a-burning-home

    From the above link: "
    But the way he went about it was not in line with fire policy. Dwyer's commander says he carried out his mission in an unsafe manner. They say he needed to wait for additional firefighters to show up before starting his search for 95-year-old Sallie Skrine.

    The incident happened last June on Collier Drive in northwest Atlanta.

    While firefighters were attacking the blaze, Dwyer was assigned to the search team.

    Paul Gerdis, who heads the fire union, said Dwyer made a "split-second" decision to go in, believe the fire to be so intense....every second counted.

    He located the resident on her dining room floor. He got her out....but he and the other firefighters could not revive her.

    For his actions, the fire command has ordered his pay be docked 48 hours.

    "It sends the wrong message," says the union president. "

    =============================================
    Posted on the "Peach State Firefighters" Facebook:

    https://www.facebook.com/peachstate...pqz_R_JOWxj52NEi7IjeShrDbiS9aBcqAbeiU&fref=nf

    "
    There are a few things that need to get out there to clear up a bunch of assumptions and misinformation being made up in the absence of detail in the news stories. These are my words, and they should not be construed as a statement by Danny Dwyer or Local 134. If there is a factual error, it is on my part, not theirs.

    1. Danny's crew was not slacking. They arrived on a tillered aerial, and both drivers had to finish dressing and packing out, and grabbing tools. They were busting their tails to meet back up with Danny on the A-side, as directed by him. The entire sequence of events happened so quickly that they met him at the front door as he was dragging Ms. Skrine through the threshold and the interior was rolling over.

    2. Danny was not freelancing. TK16 was assigned primary search, which was the task he was performing when he found the victim. The radio recordings clearly show this.

    3. Danny was working independently, not alone. He met E22 on the front porch, and as they pushed in to make fire attack, as they were assigned, he began primary search on the same floor, only feet from their line. Command knew where he was, E22 knew where he was, and his own crew knew where he was. At the same time E22 and Danny were inside on the 1st floor, another crew was entering the basement to search it.

    4. Even if Danny were alone, he did the right thing. Principles don't change based upon outcome. He did not endanger any other crews or personnel. He put the needs of the citizens above his own, as is the standard in the fire service."
    ====================================

    Fire "chief" response:

    https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/at...ion-of-fire-captain-who-ran-into-burning-home

    From that link: "Without commenting on the specifics of the incident, the chief said, even though the response demonstrated bravery, a firefighter who moves without his team puts himself and potentially other firefighters in danger if they do not know where someone is."

    ===========================================

    I have absolutely no idea what the "chief" was thinking would happen when he disciplined a firefighter for trying to rescue someone in a fire. At most, an after action meeting to go over things --- but discipline??
     
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  2. FireForged

    FireForged Millenium #3936 Millennium Member

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    If Danny got into a particular jam which could likely have been avoided when operating with a buddy, how many of his teammates would have been unnecessarily endangered while trying to get to him. Sometimes you do not get to decide what rules are the really good rules. When and if you do decide to step outside of policy and custom, there are often consequences.

    I am not saying that I would not have done the same thing Danny did. I am simply saying I understand and support the idea of discipline within the ranks.
     
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  3. Blanton

    Blanton

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    ^^THIS. "a firefighter who moves without his team puts himself and potentially other firefighters in danger if they do not know where someone is."
    ...and the lady died. It could have been her and multiple firefighters.
     
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  4. wlkjr

    wlkjr

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    Why not just let them all die and put out the fire? That way you can save the structure next door.
     
  5. FireForged

    FireForged Millenium #3936 Millennium Member

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    If this is simply an introduction of emotion into a decision making process that should probably be devoid of such things, I will submit that such a practice can often be followed by numerous negative results.
     
  6. Tvov

    Tvov

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    Biggest issue for me was/is the discipline - the extent of it, and the publicity.

    After action meeting with the firefighter? Yes. After action meeting with the crew on scene? Yes.
    Have officers meeting with other crews/shifts in the department to discuss what happened and why it was good or bad? Yes.

    Maybe even put a note in the firefighters file. "Firefighter risked his life to save a life. In our department that is bad, so take that into consideration if hiring this person". Sure, do that.

    But suspend the guy and dock his pay? For trying to rescue someone? And reading the description on the Facebook page, he was just feet from fellow firefighters who knew he was there, his crew knew where he was (and they were on the way coming in behind him), and he notified command over the radio where he was. That is the worst job of "freelancing" I've heard of.

    Maybe there was something going on in the background (politics, personality conflicts, etc) at the FD that would explain all this, there usually is at - well, every department I've ever visited.

    This just sounds to me like he got in trouble for doing what every person expects a firefighter to do. And what most firefighters know when they sign up.
     
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  7. jimcorbin

    jimcorbin

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    From an Admin point of view:

    He wasn't suspended for rescuing a woman, he was suspended for a violation of department policy. Probably the two in / two out rule. He was performing his assignment but he didn't wait for his crew / partner and went in on his own. That's a safety issue even if the attack crew knew where he was.

    Don't believe what you read on Facebook. That's one version of the story. And I'm sure that what was posted on social media was investigated and found not to be exactly correct. You only deal with facts in an investigation. You get those facts by doing a very thorough interviews and evidence gathering.

    The fact that he was suspended for this makes me think he has had some past issues with not waiting for his partners or other crew members. An escalation of disciplinary actions build up to suspension and termination.

    Do I think he was freelancing??? No, I think he didn't wait for his crew. Now maybe someone needs to look at why his crew was slow to deploy or the command staff at the scene.
     
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  8. FireForged

    FireForged Millenium #3936 Millennium Member

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    I am not firefighter but I have broken plenty of department rules and regs ( for reasons I deemed in the moment to be necessary). I always acknowledged my violation, offered an explanation( not an excuse) and simply took my licks without implicating anyone else in my actions.
     
  9. Borg Warner

    Borg Warner

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    And about a month after the inauguration we'd be seeing memes like this one:

    [​IMG]
     
  10. larry_minn

    larry_minn Silver Member Millennium Member

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    Might be a cross thread post.....

    I got write up for investigating a fire. Finding fire, putting it out in basement of a dorm.

    I would have done it again. This dorm was known for false alarms @2am every weekend. Fire dept gave us squirt guns. “Just deal with alarm pulls”...
    Anyway working security, get notified of “another alarm in jock dorm”. I trop over and nasty smoke coming from basement vents. I call dispatch to call FD again. Give my name, lots of smoke, location in building....
    Students did NOT evacuate. Winter, cold, always false alarms... so they hid in rooms....
    I went in basement, called on radio exact where I was. Checked each door before unlocking, closing behind (unlocked)
    Got to fire. Exhausted fire ex I brought with. (Breath hold, clean air fan @15’ away I used) got 2nd. Unlocked doors (secured from inside, no way other then brute force to open from above) so FD could get direct to remains of fire. They ******d it, spread out blankets, bedding, ******d it again. Done,
    Got the comment “why didn’t you use squirt gun” from a Fireman. They said they took it easy till 2nd call.
    I got chewed out by my boss. I didn’t care.
    I thought every step of the way. Checked each door, paused to think...
    I guess I should have used “spritzed” instead.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020
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  11. Cool Hand Hodge

    Cool Hand Hodge Senior Member

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    IMHO as a firefighter this is an issue that should have been talked about in training...docking pay and suspending is over the top. All i can imagine is that there was a past history with this FF we don't know about.
     
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