Finally... athletes do something (somewhat) politically intelligent.

Discussion in 'Political Issues' started by Gauss Rifle, Jun 11, 2020.

  1. Yes: police and government officials get away with way too much

    8 vote(s)
    33.3%
  2. No: police and governement should be exempt from most laws in order to do their jobs

    14 vote(s)
    58.3%
  3. Only if something better replaces it (Please discuss)

    1 vote(s)
    4.2%
  4. Unsure due to unpredictable consequences (Please discuss)

    1 vote(s)
    4.2%
  1. Gauss Rifle

    Gauss Rifle

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    https://sports.yahoo.com/over-1400-...-letter-to-end-police-immunity-150408851.html

    I'll preface this by saying that while I do not trust politicians, I bear no ill will toward police officers. However, no one should be above the law.

    Qualified immunity is just like any other advantage-based program; (supposedly) well intentioned but biased by nature and easily abusable by those given the advantage.

    Just as affirmative action holds back white men in favor of women and minorities and feminism holds back men in favor of women, qualified immunity provides unreasonably strong protection for law enforcement and government officials from prosecution and lawsuits.

    While I think cops should have a bit of leeway when doing their jobs, there should be limits to that kind of power; especially when it comes to things like public safety and the constitutional rights of citizens.

    In this thread, I'd like to start a constructive discussion on whether or not Qualified Immunity is still necessary. Should it be repealed? If so, what (if any) protections should we afford those who work in government or law enforcement?

    Your thoughts?
     
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  2. wprebeck

    wprebeck Have you seen me?

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    I think a lot of people don't understand what "qualified immunity" means - especially the person who started this thread.

    In a nutshell, qualified immunity protects officers who are acting in accordance with the following:

    Federal law
    State law
    Local law
    Agency policy

    That means that if I have probable cause to arrest you for an offense, but that you didn't actually commit the offense, I can't be sued. I acted in good faith, by following established law and policy, and could articulate probable cause for my arrest.

    If you crybabies get what you want, and end qualified immunity for law enforcement, here's what will happen:

    1st - Anyone who can retire will do so. Immediately.

    2nd - Anyone who chooses to stay on the job won't be doing a damn thing. Why make an arrest, if you can lose everything you own? Arrests are based on PC, convictions are based on proof beyond a reasonable doubt. There's a distinct difference and one that is apparently lost on the clueless. In any case, if you remove qualified immunity for officers, crime will soar. The ones who don't retire or leave the profession will simply lay down amd take reports. If there's a call that has the potential for violence, then response times will likely slow down considerably. After all, if legal protections don't exist for officers, why take the risk?

    3rd - No one worth a damn will seek employment in the profession. We are almost at that point now, and ending qualified immunity will be the tipping point. I'm retired from one LE agency and currently interviewing with two others. If this stuff passes, I'll resign before the ink is dry on the bill. I could be in the middle of handcuffing a murder suspectand would set him free. Not worth the potential risk.

    I've seen a lot of comparisons between doctors and law enforcement, during the recent discussions on ending qualified immunity. Those comparisons are inaccurate, misleading, and just plain wrong.

    Outside of an emergency medical issue that requires action immediately, when do doctors make split second decisions? I spent a LOT of time in emergency rooms during my first career and doctors have all day to make decisions, run tests, etc. Law enforcement officers don't have that luxury. Often, decisions are made in a matter of seconds - or less - and people like you want to take away protections that allow officers in good faith to not be sued.

    Yeah, this country is going to hell in a quick way. I'm not a tin foil guy at all, but damn....the push for gun control, the lockdowns for a virus that killed less than 2% of people who contracted it (in my state, at least), the martyring of a convicted felon, the riots which resulted from said death of the martyr - despite the officers involved being charged and arrested VERY quickly, a U.S. city being taken over by a terrorist organization and not addressed, the cancel culture driving hard at ANYTHING that can be twisted to seem offensive to thin skinned crybabies, and the push to neuter current law enforcement practices in favor of ones that will dramatically reduce the amount of people willing to do the job.

    It almost seems like a concerted effort to overload the current political system and force a collapse, so that something new can be ushered in. Socialism is the shiny new toy in the hands of the kids these days and admitted Communists are no longer seen as a threat - but as people with good ideas.

    America is gone and we are living in her death throes right now. People like you are helping move things right along, either by design or because you don't understand why such things as qualified immunity exist.

    I'll end by saying that the system usually works, when it comes to prosecuting bad officers. Three of my former coworkers are in federal custody of some type, due to their actions. One is my former sergeant, who was held responsible as she was the supervisor on scene. Qualified immunity doesn't mean squat if you act against state or federal law and outside of department policy. Educate yourself, before spouting off at the gums about things you obviously don't understand.
     

  3. Deltic

    Deltic

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    The left wants a different way of dealing with crime and public safety. I support the current system as long as they strive to improve on any problem areas. For those that don't support the cops I propose that they should be required to go out and deal with criminals for 2 days out of every year. They should be legally liable if a criminal or a crime victim is injured or has their feelings hurt. Not responding to a 911 call for help should be a crime.
    Dealing with violent people is not fun and when theory hits reality most of the leftards would pee their pants and scream for help.
     
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  4. jr24

    jr24

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    A simple ride along is quite eye opening and educating.

    LivePD used to be a nice glimpse in the life, but it's gone now.
     
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  5. fx77

    fx77 CLM

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    First discontinue all public employee collective bargaining and unions (having been a union employee and a manager both)
    Then visitthe idea of removing qualified immunity from all public employees

    Going back to Democrat administrations who feared the table is stacked by unions voting in their politicians...even JFK did not want to unionize federal employees, but that kind of democrat who cared for the country is long gone.
     
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  6. sharpshooter

    sharpshooter Member Millennium Member

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    That's NOT what qualified immunity means. For crying out loud... Educate yourself before you destroy LE.
     
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  7. Bomber Nav

    Bomber Nav

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    An EXCELLENT posting! Thank you wprebeck!
     
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  8. wprebeck

    wprebeck Have you seen me?

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    I wouldn't do the job without union protection, any more than I'd do it without qualified immunity. Spoken as someone who hated the leadership of my union before I left. Collective bargaining gave my department hazardous duty retirement, overtime, off days, bidded job assignments, and generally kept the asskissers from getting the good off days or assignments. It also provided protection from malicious bosses and brought pay up to a reasonable level.

    Sure, unions have negative points, as well. So does everything that involves humans.
     
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  9. robhic

    robhic I'm your huckleberry.... Platinum Member

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    Thank you for that. This is a concise explanation of something, IMO, that can get complicated. I want cops to be able to do their duty without being restricted by potential unfair consequence. Like the ROE that got so many troops wounded or killed. IT'S BAD POLICY!
     
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  10. sharpshooter

    sharpshooter Member Millennium Member

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    This poll is garbage. Take it down. Police are NOT exempt from most laws, never have been. There are common sense exemptions so they can do their jobs, like carry loaded guns, and exceed speed limits while driving code 3 lights/sirens, and arrest powers etc. Police have to obey the other 99.9% of laws same as you.

    There's no good way to answer your poll. It's like asking:
    Q: Do you support the 2nd Amendment?
    A. Yes, citizens should be able to own and use nuclear weapons etc without any restrictions including age.
    B. No, only police/military should have firearms.

    See how irrational the answers are? Your poll is garbage. Garbage in, garbage out.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
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  11. PEC-Memphis

    PEC-Memphis Scottish Member

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    Doh ?

    He misunderstood the “qualified” part of “qualified immunity”.
     
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  12. sharpshooter

    sharpshooter Member Millennium Member

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    It's not ABSOLUTE immunity. It's QUALIFIED immunity. There's a huuuuge difference. Look it up.
     
  13. CAcop

    CAcop

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    Of the cops who stayed thier insurance companies would run things. Say 6 officers are in on an arrest that results in a lawsuit. 6 x the policy limit per incident, which would probably be several million per would leave the insurance company with a big payout potentially.

    The employing city and agency would still be one the hook for hiring, training, etc.

    Since training is the first to go in any budget cuts the officers' insurance company would throw the city under the bus. "The city is at fault because they failed to train."

    Even if you made officer pay for their own training they would ask for more money to pay for it.

    People love magical thinking. "If we just did x everything would be ok."

    Every change sets up a new set of circumstances and unless you think before you act it will be a shock to you bad things happen.
     
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  14. Collo Rosso

    Collo Rosso

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    I liked the response in the article "let the NFL players patrol the inner cities during the summer and show us how it's done".
     
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  15. rock_castle

    rock_castle Enjoys liberal temper tantrums & hissy fits

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    If it's going to be taken away from LE then it needs to be taken away from elected government officials too.
     
  16. bigj480

    bigj480 CLM

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    A solution looking for a problem. You will never prevent every mistake or bad action by individuals and people exaggerate the extent of it for political gain. We need less criminality from those complaining, that harms FAR more people and that's what we need to fix. Who is addressing that? No one, because it's not about protecting people or about black lives. Let police step away from black communities and watch what happens.
     
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  17. PEC-Memphis

    PEC-Memphis Scottish Member

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    Just another reason to not watch/attend NFL events.
     
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  18. robhic

    robhic I'm your huckleberry.... Platinum Member

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    Do you know how much ammo you can reload in the time of a football game?
     
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  19. Tomcat1977

    Tomcat1977 "Cynical Little me"

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    They have no idea what the words mean. They think an officer can go out there and do anything he wants and the Dept. will automatically back him.

    In fact its entirely up to the employer if he will be backed or not.

    The only abuse of the current system Ive seen, other then occasionally throwing an innocent copper to the gator's to appease the mob and making him sue to get back on, are the entirely Political ones. The lucky few who are protected by the very same Politicians who are now calling for reform.

    Thats how a guy who killed an unarmed disabled kid can get suspended where another who just gave the middle finger to the mob throwing bricks at him can get fired.
     
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  20. BobbyS

    BobbyS Truth always sounds like lies to a sinner

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    that you will probably need shortly..........
     
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