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Feds to bail out state pension funds?

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Mr981, Sep 30, 2012.

  1. Brucev

    Brucev

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  2. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    Last edited: Oct 6, 2012

  3. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    :rofl::rofl::rofl:

    $10 an hour employees are 1 penny a dozen.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2012
  4. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    Still waiting for CACOP to tell me which 3 accounts are mine. He seems to have suddenly disappeared.
     
  5. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    And Bruce...feel free to come take my money.

    I am 11 minutes outside of Basel.

    Have fun.
     
  6. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    Bruce had posted before that he runs a non profit. I suspect a church.

    Imagine that? Running a tax exempt enterprise while wanting to Tax others "up the wazoo"
     
  7. CAcop

    CAcop

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    My contract with the city said up until last year that I would pay 9% of my pay to CalPERS and the city would pick up any other contributions. For much of the 90s and 2000s the city paid between 0 and 9 percent. Most of the time it was 4-5%. My city could have been smart like Morgan Hill where they banked the amount less than 9%. They chose not to. Now they negotiated a contract where I pay 20%.

    No where in the current contract or the other ones was a provision for them to stop paying. CalPERS would not allow it. CalPERS is essentially a bank giving a loan to cities and counties and the state to purchase retirements. They are not going to have it written into the contract where the employer or the employee can stop paying on the pension.

    In the 1940s some sicites and counties tried to not pay pensions. The courts ruled it was amatter of contract law. They must pay. The only way out was bankruptcy. Since bankruptcy means opening up the books the cities and counties paid without bankruptcy.

    Like I said above in red I would be okay with the city going bankrupt because the courts have the wisdom to see bull****, unlike you.
     
  8. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    Cities don't have any money but what they take from the citizens.

    Employees make contracts with cities.

    Citizens don't can't or won't pay any more.

    Employees don't have contracts with the citizens.

    The same power that government has which allows it to compel citizens to pay taxes can be used against employees too, allowing them to not pay if they can't.

    As a tax payer when push comes to shove I think there are better uses for my money than paying unrealistic pensions.
     
  9. CAcop

    CAcop

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    I did not say they were yours. I suspected they were yours. I do not care who or what you are. You have no affect on my life.

    All I pointed out was that another poster in a PM mentioned that he thought you had another screen name. He gave it as DanaT. I did not beleive him at first but a few weeks ago I saw a thread where you, DanaT, and I beleive it was October Rust seemed awfully close to one another in terms of arguments.

    Of course since I did not and still do not care what you do in your free time I never really looked it over. This thread and the other one going on here made me think about it again.

    I was giving advice to a fellow poster who took your comments to heart in a negative fashion. I wanted to remind him that things are not always what they appear online. Anyone could be anything online. He should never really care about what some anonymous person thinks.

    I come here to debate because I get bored from time to time when I am not working. I used to go to the gym or more likely go on long hikes in sunny CA. Now I watch my little kid, glad that I can make a good enough living to support her and my wife. When I have time I stop in and debate you and others for fun.

    Enjoy your day. I know I will.
     
  10. Brucev

    Brucev

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  11. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    Dont be so sure. A company I worked for a while ago filed bankruptcy and the sale of assets was completed on Monday (this week). When I worked there 5 years ago, we saw the financial problems. The only surprises is it took them 5 years to fail and then the owners came out of the bankruptcy so well.

    I will show you an example of the "wisdom of the court" in this court filing (I have taken out names)

    27. XXXX is the Chief Executive Officer, Manager, and Founder of the Debtor, and is intimately involved in all strategic decisions and the day-to-day operations of the business. Mr. XXXXX has historically been paid a “Guaranteed Payment” from the Debtor in exchange for his services. Most currently, the amount of the “Guaranteed Payment” to Mr. XXXX has been $23,334 per month. This Guaranteed Payment is a gross amount without tax withholdings, and Mr. XXXXX is required to pay self-employment taxes. This is similar to the way that most lawyers who are members or partners in modern law firms are paid.

    28. Before the Petition Date, SA XXX obtained a joint and several judgment against the Debtor, Mr. XXXX and others for over $5 million in litigation styled XXX vs. XXX, L.L.C. et al., Case No. XXXX(the “XXXLitigation”), pending in the District Court for Denver County, Colorado (the “Colorado State Court”). Collection of the judgment against the Debtor was stayed by the Colorado State Court after the Debtor posted a bond, but collection of the judgment has not been stayed against Mr. XXXXX.

    29. XXXX, however, has aggressively sought to collect the judgment from Mr. XXXX and has obtained a charging order in the XXXX Litigation against Mr. XXXX membership interest in the Debtor. The Colorado State Court has interpreted the applicable statutes and rules such that the Guaranteed Payment received from Mr. XXXX in exchange for his services is a “distribution” and not “salary”, and therefore that the entire Guaranteed Paymentis subject to garnishment.

    30. As a result of the Debtor’s severe illiquidity, the Debtor has not paid Mr. XXXX any Guaranteed Payments since May 1, 2012. Accordingly, Mr. XXX is owed $64,932.39 by
    the Debtor as of the Petition Date on account of these foregone Guaranteed Payments.

    31. Mr. XXXXcan no longer devote his time to the Debtor for no compensation. Therefore, the Debtor seeks authority to, as of the Petition Date, begin paying Mr. XXXX in the
    same manner as all other employees, i.e. a normal salary payment every 14 days with various taxes withheld. Neurelec would presumably be able to garnish this salary to the fullest extent permissible by Colorado law, or approximately 25-30%.


    dana comment here - This is a pay increase because the company now picks up 7% of the payroll tax that he would have previously been paying as self employment tax

    32. In the absence of this relief, it is doubtful that Mr. XXXX could continue todevote any time to the proposed sale of assets and the Debtor’s efforts to restructure its obligations and repay its creditors.


    What was the wisdom of the court in this ????

    5. In exchange for the performance of his normal and customary duties for the Debtor, the Debtor shall be authorized to compensate XXXX in the same manner, timing
    and method as all other employees of the Debtor, with Mr. Bedoya to receive a salary of $23,334 per month for his services, with all state, federal and local withholding taxes to be deducted in accordance with applicable law.



    So the wisdom of the court is ANOTHER court finds you liable in a civil case (it was an industrial espionage / illegal trade practices case) and now assets of said company owner are being seized by the winning plaintiff. What does a WISE court decide in bankruptcy? Give him a pay increase and help him hide income that another courts have already ruled are owed to someone else.

    So, please tell me how the courts see through BS. BTW. I have only scratched the surface of what happened.
     
  12. CAcop

    CAcop

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    Go ahead stamp your feet. I am sure they will hear you in I'LL or CA.

    You live in LA you have some of the worst schools and law enforcement agencies in the country. You also have some of the lowest paying jobs in those areas. You get what you pay for. You also get what you deserve.

    CA and IL want more. Let them have it. And before you say your tax dollars pay for it they don't. Your state receives more money than it gives. And spare me "without the gulf you would have nothing." Martinez, Bakersfield, and Santa Barbara.
     
  13. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    Thats funny.

    How many screen names do you have. I have seen you seen you, TBO, Ohiocopper, etc, etc have awefully close arguments.

    But since stupidity (or dont we call that tinfoil hat conspiracy kooks???) is running rampant....here is my IP Address. You can see where I am at.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    As I have said before, I believe this is a matter of contract law and agree with CACop on this. What is owed from the past was compensation that was agreed to. The govt agencies need to find a way to fullfil past obligations because right or wrong, the employees fulfilled theirs.

    That said, that doesnt mean past contracts / services provided are bind on future contracts / services that will be provided by employees. Maybe some of coming up with the money to fund the pensions means cutting back current employees.

    I believe people need to pay their debts before buying new toys. Same with these pensions. To me they are a debt. They need to be settled. That may mean cuts in other places.
     
  15. podwich

    podwich

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  16. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    It really bothers you to be a pie eater rather than a pie producer, doesn't it?

    You think of your work as important, and I'm sure it is. But that doesn't change the fact that you rely on someone else for your piece of the pie.
     
  17. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    I think current voters get to decide how their tax dollars are spent.
     
  18. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    Well, Dana T and I do both work for German companies......

    You never know
     
  19. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    Actually, since you have caught me, I should probably come clean. We are not the same person. In fact, we aren't even people. We are advanced computer algorithms that are designed to respond to messages are posted and try to elicit responses from people.

    We do this, because we are searching for enemies of the New World Order. We assemble lists of names, trace IP address, associate these with browsing history. We have access to back door access in Windows and IOs where we are able to access anything on your computer. We compile lists of "friends and enemies" of the New World Order. The main frame we "live" in is based in Davos Switzerland.

    What is good, is that even though it has been admitted you wont believe it because that, by definition would make you a tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist. So you will dismiss all of this and I have nothing to worry about.

    PS. I am the lucky one of the two of us because I get to be with Number 6
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2012
  20. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    I agree with this...but after we settle debt...

    Spending needs cut, but past payments need to be paid.