Feds/DHS

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by Kadetklapp, Feb 25, 2010.

  1. Kadetklapp

    Kadetklapp Methberry PD

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    Are any of my fellow brothers here, whether it be local, state, municipal cops, leary of .gov federal officers? I know our beloved Hack is a BoP copper, and I have no issue with that whatsoever, and I have no issue with Border Patrol guys either. But with the recent "merger" if you will of "DHS" with all these agencies, it's leaving me with a really bad taste in my mouth. I feel like there is an awful lot of big brother law enforcement.

    What brought this up was the recent news about "DHS losing guns" when really it was several other individual agencies. What say you?
     
  2. Narc1911

    Narc1911 Anchora Salutis

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    Not at all. I work with ICE and DHS all the time and ATF, FBI and DEA occasionally. The ICE and DHS guys are some of the best to work with. Not sure what your experiences are to see them as "big brother?"
     

  3. CanIhaveGasCash

    CanIhaveGasCash

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    I found the article about DHS losing their guns pretty funny, mostly because I worked with about 10 DHS guys in january that didn't carry firearms.
     
  4. Kadetklapp

    Kadetklapp Methberry PD

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    I don't know, I guess it just comes from a lack of experience, but some of these guys give me the creeps. In the academy one of the guys that instructed was recently retired border patrol and was a great guy. We had BoP instructors way back when I went to jail academy. None of those folks weirded me out, but I recently went to some training where we were learning about "domestic terrorism" and the guy was DHS. He carried a sidearm and had a badge, but as far as I know "DHS" was his agency, and nothing else. Anyway, he was a total nut. Lots of profiling "right-wing extremists, retired police officers, retired military, etc."

    I don't like the vibe these guys give off. They are also pretty snooty. This guy seemed to be wayyyy out there.

    I was told by an administrator that the purpose of the class was so we could apply for some more funding. I think it's completely stupid that we have to jump thru hoops like dogs at a show just so we can get our own money. Same thing with the "NIMS" training albeit on a smaller scale.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2010
  5. HomeLandPatriot

    HomeLandPatriot

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    seems like you have a specific "weird vibe" from 1811 criminal investigators.

    Border Patrol and the like (uniformed agents, much like local guys, just different boss) are mostly 1801, Uniformed Fed LEO agents. Seems like you just relate to the street working Fed Cop more than the suit wearing Investigator.

    I can't imagine its much different than thinking the detectives are a little odd while shooting the **** with the patrol guys.
     
  6. blueiron

    blueiron

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    From someone who worked both sides of the wall [back when it was under DoJ], I don't know why you are worried.

    No one at agency 'A' prefers dealing with anyone in agency 'B' and vice versa. DEA doesn't like the FBI in the drug role, BATFE doesn't care for the FBI meddling in bombings or arson crimes, USSS wants no one involved in dignitary protection, the FBI resents the USMS relationship with the judiciary, the USN cannot stand that the USCG has a role in narcotics trafficking and the USCG wants its space away from the USN, tthe FBI considers the BIA police incompetent and the BIA police consider the FBI to be a PITA, and so on....

    I worry more about interagency squabbling affecting the national security more than I do about whether a national police force is going to emerge. The feds simply don't trust each other and it all comes down to turf and funding.
     
  7. Hack

    Hack Crazy CO Gold Member

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    You are spot on. And, to listen to some of those mentioned, BOP is not LE. They apparently live back in the seventies and before when we were not officially LE as an agency, but still had its functions concerning certain LE activities from what I understand of it.
     
  8. kpuscg04

    kpuscg04 ACTA NON VERBA

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    There are no DHS Agents other than the few Office of Inspector General agents. Most badge carrying, gun toting agents that refer to themselves as DHS Agents are ICE Agents. I don't know why, but they seem to refer to themselves as DHS more than ICE.


    Second, its not YOUR money. Its DHS grant money. If you want it, you got to jump through DHS's hoops.
     
  9. jayzazueta

    jayzazueta

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    I work with ICE and BP.... ICE agents are more paper workers and BP are the "grunts" of what I've seen. Both agencies have good and bad apples. I know they both had VERY few who took a polygraph to get their jobs, and that makes a different kinda employee you will get. Both are great and we give em easy business so they love us @ the jail.
     
  10. i8547

    i8547 Without Equal

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    +1. While all of our badges have some sort of reference to DHS, there is no "DHS Special Agent" aside from OIG as mentioned above. They certainly would not be teaching a terrorism related class either. Chances are you received the training from someone who was certified from New Mexico Tech as a Terrorism Liaison Officer which several of us throughout DHS have as a "title."

    While I was no big fan of the merger, it was a necessary evil for many things to function as they do now. But fast forward almost 7 years later, and it's still a dysfunctional family that has lots of kinks to be worked out. So I can understand your standoffish perspective toward DHS as a whole as there are some aspects that leave a lot to be desired.

    Also, Border Patrol Agents are series 1896, not 1801.

    The polygraph is the least of the problem in us receiving "different kinda employees." But we won't hijack and steer this thread in that direction. Also, while we have more boots on the ground per se in a grunt minded fashion than ICE, we do our fair share of "paper pushing" in result of our multi-tiered investigations and plain clothes enforcement aspects that do not receive much attention due to our MOU with ICE among other agencies.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2010
  11. lawman800

    lawman800 Juris Glocktor

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    It just keeps getting better, don't it?
    Maybe they lost them?:supergrin::whistling::tongueout::rofl::faint:
     
  12. Kadetklapp

    Kadetklapp Methberry PD

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    Thanks for the input. I feel I have a better understanding of the merger now.

    I was speaking with a BP guy on another board about my concerns and he threw the "I've got more power than you will ever have" thing out there. My response was how can that be, since feds can't enforce state law/local ordinance?

    Then I learned how they could serve local warrants (I know the US Marshals had been doing that, but I guess I hadn't made the connection). The US citizen in me is a little creeped out that feds are able to easily enforce state laws. I thought the seperation of the states and the federal government served to prevent this.
     
  13. lawman800

    lawman800 Juris Glocktor

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    It just keeps getting better, don't it?
    Feds enforce state laws by CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) incorporating them. When I worked in Vegas, the Federal park rangers at Lake Mead enforced Nevada state laws, mostly DUI on park property and sent the offenders to federal court where a federal judge adjudicated the state law violation. Nothing new there.
     
  14. TheGreatGonzo

    TheGreatGonzo Clown Hunter

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    Lost in thought...
    There is a huge difference between being able to arrest for a warrant or for a violent felony as opposed to being able to pull you over and write you a speeding ticket; arrest you for shoplifting; enforce city ordinances; etc. Feds (the vast majority, anyway) do not have the authority to do those things.

    Think of it this way: If a Park Ranger at the Grand Canyon pulls over someobody for speeding in the Park and they turn out to have be wanted for a homicide in Alabama, would you want the Park Ranger to have to let him go because he could not arrest him? Or, if an FBI Agent is paying for his gas and buying a Twinkie and some beef jerkey at the Exxon when he observes a man in the parking lot smack a woman in the face and try to steal her purse...should he just be a good witness and call 9-1-1? When it comes down to it, the vast majority of federal officers have very limited authority to enforce local/state laws. And even where empowered to do so, most federal agencies highly discourage their employees from doing so. Believe me, the separation of powers (a good thing) still exists.
    Gonzo
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2010
  15. Kadetklapp

    Kadetklapp Methberry PD

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    All good points. Like I said, around here I have a total lack of experience dealing the the federals.
     
  16. TheGreatGonzo

    TheGreatGonzo Clown Hunter

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    You were right about one thing. We are all arrogant weasals. :supergrin:

    LOL! Keep in mind, many of us started our careers as local cops. And we are still patrol officers in our hearts. :wavey:
    Gonzo
     
  17. i8547

    i8547 Without Equal

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    And also, some feds (BP included) can and do stop, cite or arrest for local/county/state violations. It all depends on which state they are stationed in among a few other things.
     
  18. TheGreatGonzo

    TheGreatGonzo Clown Hunter

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    True, true. That is why I used the terms "most" and "majority". Not a whole lot of Feds are out doing local police work.
     
  19. blueiron

    blueiron

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    The Feds do allow locals and staties to get 287g [IIRC] status to enforce federal immigration law.

    If you have a Native American Rez nearby or part of your area, you may get BIA certified to amke arrests of Natives on the Rez.

    It isn't all one way.
     
  20. ultra45

    ultra45

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    +1 In 30 years of LE, the best 1811'sw I met or worked with were cops prior to becoming 1811's.