close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

Federal HST 230gr: +P and standard pressure

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by ABNAK, Sep 23, 2012.

  1. ABNAK

    ABNAK

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Noticed something interesting while breaking in my Kahr CW45. Was trying to use a variety of different ammo and two of those used were the HST in +P and standard pressure. In the course of reloading mags I noticed that the standard pressure ones had skivves cut all the way to the case mouth; on the +P's the skivves were NOT cut all the way down. Leads me to believe that they are different bullets, one for each pressure level.

    This is different from the 9mm HST "heavy" 147gr ammo. The 147gr HST has skivves cut all the way down to the case mouth on both the +P and standard pressure rounds, leading me to believe they are the same bullet.

    Now obviously the .40 does not have a legit +P rating so there is no comparison to be made, but the 180gr HST's also have the skivves cut all the way down to the case mouth.

    So, I wonder why the .45 departs from the "norm" for heavy HST loads with the +P?
     
  2. Tiro Fijo

    Tiro Fijo

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    6,281
    Likes Received:
    16
    Hydraulics & velocity I'd imagine. Since the .45 cal. has a wider HP cavity then it only goes to say that it probably needs less "assistance" via the skives at a higher velocity. As an example, the old Speer 200 gr. "Flying Ashtray" opened up very well at over 1,000 fps. Under that & it didn't. Of course, that was before the technology of today.
     

  3. ABNAK

    ABNAK

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Tennessee

    Yeah, I've heard the "flying ashtray" was overrated as it didn't always expand like you would think by looking at it's gaping HP cavity. That wasn't a Gold Dot, was it?
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2012
  4. Tiro Fijo

    Tiro Fijo

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    6,281
    Likes Received:
    16

    No, it was not. It was an old style cup based HP loaded back when their Lawman series included loaded HP ammo.
     
  5. triggerjerk

    triggerjerk

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2000
    Messages:
    1,506
    Likes Received:
    82
    I don't see any difference.

    Below is HST .45+P on left, standard pressure on right.
    Pic is crappy but you can see where the flash picked up the bottom of the skives.
    If anything the +P appears to have shorter skives.
    [​IMG]

    The pic is a little deceiving. To the naked eye there really is no difference.
     
  6. Kalmah

    Kalmah Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,013
    Likes Received:
    687
    Location:
    Colorado
    Glad to see your CW45 likes HSTs. Mine doesn't. It has no problem with any other JHP I've tried, but I get the occasional FTF with HST.

    As far as your observation goes, I've noticed that too. The standard pressure has longer skives than the +P. If you're wondering why, you could always ask Federal.
     
  7. SCmasterblaster

    SCmasterblaster G17 carrier since 1989 Millennium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 1999
    Messages:
    19,205
    Likes Received:
    988
    Location:
    Hartford, Vermont
    I use a +p+ 9mm round in my G17. I wonder if there is a +p+ .45 load out there anywhere?
     
  8. ABNAK

    ABNAK

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Tennessee

    That's what I was saying.
     
  9. ABNAK

    ABNAK

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Tennessee
    I'd like to have a good point of contact to do just that! In fact, I'd like to know the low-end velocity/expansion threshhold's of a few of the HST rounds.
     
  10. triggerjerk

    triggerjerk

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2000
    Messages:
    1,506
    Likes Received:
    82
    Right, sorry for the ramble. What I meant was that none of the +P I have went all the way to the case mouth. And after going over a few boxes there really was no consistent length to the skives of either pressure round.
     
  11. SCmasterblaster

    SCmasterblaster G17 carrier since 1989 Millennium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 1999
    Messages:
    19,205
    Likes Received:
    988
    Location:
    Hartford, Vermont
    I'd use the +p .45 for sure.
     
  12. ABNAK

    ABNAK

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Tennessee

    How long ago did you get the ammo? Mine is pretty consistent as far as where the cuts end. Bought it within the last 18 months or so.
     
  13. SCmasterblaster

    SCmasterblaster G17 carrier since 1989 Millennium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 1999
    Messages:
    19,205
    Likes Received:
    988
    Location:
    Hartford, Vermont
    The Speer flying ashtray .45 ACP was over-rated because of the slow velocities that the short .45 ACP case could deliver. :dunno:
     
  14. tacticalG23

    tacticalG23 Darkside Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2007
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Curious as to if you measured the OAL and confirmed them to be the same, perhaps the standard pressure is set back a tiny bit further?
     
  15. SCmasterblaster

    SCmasterblaster G17 carrier since 1989 Millennium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 1999
    Messages:
    19,205
    Likes Received:
    988
    Location:
    Hartford, Vermont
    The .45 ACP has a 100-year record as a manstopper. I guess that the .45 ACP +p rounds are even better.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
  16. triggerjerk

    triggerjerk

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2000
    Messages:
    1,506
    Likes Received:
    82
    About that same age range. The standard pressure has a newer label on it though.
     
  17. SCmasterblaster

    SCmasterblaster G17 carrier since 1989 Millennium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 1999
    Messages:
    19,205
    Likes Received:
    988
    Location:
    Hartford, Vermont
    I guess that no-one knows if there is a +p+ .45ACP load. They are offered by several companies in 9mmP, so I was wondering about .45 ACP.
     
  18. ABNAK

    ABNAK

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Never heard of one. Now perhaps one of the boutique ammo makers bills one as +P+ but as AFAIK there is no such SAAMI designation.

    Georgia Arms is good for that, at least with "+P" .40 loads.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
  19. SCmasterblaster

    SCmasterblaster G17 carrier since 1989 Millennium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 1999
    Messages:
    19,205
    Likes Received:
    988
    Location:
    Hartford, Vermont
    I guess that they don't exist. :dunno: