Home > The Armory > Caliber Corner > Federal 10mm 200 grain HST

Federal 10mm 200 grain HST

  1. Advertised at 1130 fps. A fella at the 10mm forums tested them from a Glock 20, and he got 1089 fps.

    I wrote Federal and asked about the lack of speed, and which barrel they used. As well I asked if the new HST was a new bullet or if it was originally meant for the .40 S&W, and if it would still perform down at 1000 fps from a Glock 29. Here is the reply they sent me.

    I believe I'm going to start testing these for carry in my Glock 29. Albeit, they will only average 1015-1020 fps from the 3.77" barrel, but I carry mine with a 4.6" barrel. I've never seen an HST that didn't perform well.
     
  2. I’m sorry, but it begs the question-why? Those velocities just aren’t compelling to me when a 20 grains lighter HST will be in the same ball park from a smaller .40 Glock. The whole allure to 10mm is speed. This offering from Federal, albeit probably has great terminal performance just begs the question of what can this do that a 180gr .40 HST can’t?


    Sent from my iPhone using Glock Talk mobile app
     
  3. Did you read their reply to me? It's basically a big case of covering their ass on pressures.

    .40 S&W
    180 HST @ 1010 fps & 408 ft/lbs

    10mm
    200 HST @ 1130 fps & 567 ft/lbs

    The heavier bullet is going to handle hard objects better. In hunting I've seen how much difference 20 grains can make vs bones. I'm betting when the jello mould tests start, this penetrates farther and leaves a bigger PWC, and probably expands to 1". Time will tell.

    Honestly, I'd rather have the new 200 grain Gold Dot loaded by Underwood.
     
  4. I read the entire thing. I don’t think there will be that much of a real world difference between the two when used for their intended purposes. The 200gr will obviously penetrate deeper. That’s probably about it. Not saying it’s a bad load. It just doesn’t seem to offer much over their .40 loads. That being said I would be shocked if they could load that bullet in .40 and still make 950fps from a 4 inch. There are a few 200gr .40 loads floating around. If the 10mm is 1015 and the 40 (from a 27) was around 930 that doesn’t seem like a huge difference. Just my opinion.

    I agree it’s just CYA. They’re loading it for the guys who rechambers the same round 100 times and sets the bullet back.


    Sent from my iPhone using Glock Talk mobile app
     
  5. Buy Underwood Gold Dots, those loads are no joke.
     
  6. I have them, in 165 and 180. Along with the Noslers in 135 and 200, and the XTP's in 155, 180, and 200. Hey, I like Underwood.
     
  7. Underwood .40 s&w 200's from a 4" barrel is 950.

    I see your point and I will edit my statement. I will start testing these for carry. I would never just switch and assume they're perfect ya know?

    As I added above, I'd much rather have the new 10mm 200 grain Gold Dot, only loaded to 1200. We have a fellow on the 10mm forums who is gel testing the new 200 GD. He will be testing them stock, and pulling some for hotter loading. He will be gel testing those in the 1200-1250 range.
     
  8. Loading an HST (shallow penetrating) for woods use and neglecting to state that the test barrel was 5 inches knowing everyone would assume the test barrel was the standard 4 inches is a joke. Seems they are throwing something new out with the old reliable HST name but in reality it's not much more than another sales gimmick, which has become the hallmark of big ammo.
     
  9. I have never seen a factory load meet the speed on the box except 17HMR . As chronagraghs got more available factory loads velocity came down.
     
  10. It's pretty common knowledge test barrels for 10mm is 5 inches. That's what Underwood uses too. Winchester is the odd ball, they use 5.5" for the Silvertips.
     
  11. JMO, but I think Federal would have been better off designing a 10mm specific 180gr HST that they could safely load to 1220fps.


    Sent from my iPhone using Glock Talk mobile app
     
  12. I agree with you. I think the reason the new Gold Dot and the HST is 200, is because that's what Cooper wanted. So they are trying to sell on Nostalgia, I guess you might say.

    Why not something odd to stand out? 185 grain at 1250 ?
     
  13. What if, say, that projectile were used with , say, a hypothetical 10x20 round?

    Keith
     
  14. You talking about a .400" bore cartridge, with brass 2mm shorter than the .40 S&W?
     
  15. Hypotheticals light my fire. Go check that thread out. Its a good one. LOL

    But, to answer your question- a hypothetical 10x20mm round would result in absolute obliteration of whatever it struck upon impact. I'm talking instant terminal effect. That round would be so badass Nancy needs to write some preemptive legislation banning it. That would make me feel safer.
     
  16. That would certainly be a first class SD round for the 10 mm, but the heavy for caliber "bear load" seems to be the fashion now so $$$ rules. Underwood offers a GD 165 gr .40 at 1200 fps. which is the next best thing for you.
     
  17. Now that I've had a couple days to think about this, I see it differently. It seems like Federal can't or won't design a bullet that can actually handle REAL 10MM speeds. Kind of seems like they just threw a 180 HST in the copier and hit 110%.
     
  18. 1100 isn't horrible, but I lol'd about their spiel on temp and over pressure slagging on UW and BB.
     
  19. The people who came up with the ideal of a heavy HST were thinking more about their bottom line than they were about their product. I think the industry is worried that Trump will be reelected and their sales will be flat for years to come, so they're coming out with new gun models aimed at the masses (9mm) and sales gimmicks for ammo trying to do anything they can to boost sales.

    They don't have the great guns and ammo salesman Obama any more so now they're having to hustle for a buck.
     
  20. 1100 fps with a 200 grain HST isn't bad for a defensive load against feral recidivist humanoid predators. For a hunting load, I'd prefer a full 1200 fps. Hornady loads a 200 grain XTP at 1050 fps and 1050 fps seems to be industry standard for 200 grain bullets because 200 grain Speer blazers and PMC fmj's are both loaded to 1050 fps.

    And Underwood's hottest 200 grain 45 ACP load is "only" loaded to 1100 fps but I wouldn't want to get hit with one of those OR a 10mm at 1100 fps.

    And I suspect that nobody but Underwood, Buffalo bore, and Double Tap loads the 10mm to it's full 37,500 psi maximum chamber pressure. More likely the 10mm is loaded to the same 35,000 psi as the 9mm and the 40 S&W.
     
  21. That includes the original Norma 10mm loads. By today's standards it would not make the cut as "real" 10mm ammo. I have only seen the original Norma ammo tested a couple times on YouTube but out of real guns it was 175 to 200 fps short of the impressive numbers printed on the box.

    Affordable chronographs and YouTube have made it a lot harder for ammo makers get away with inflated velocity claims. Its too bad the equipment needed to measure pressure is still so expensive. It would be nice to know if the big companies are not loading 10mm ammo up to the limit or if the boutique companies are treating the SAAMI specs as more of a guideline than a spec. Without a way to accurately measure pressure there is no way to know.
     
  22. I've read in several places, top 10mm loads are not close to the 37,500 psi. I guess that's judging by info printed in reloading manuals.
     
  23. Underwood loads the 180 gr Gold Dot at 1300. Perfect carry load.
     
  24. Bedside basics
    20190220_230120.jpg
     
  25. How are the terminal ballistics (penetration and weight retention) in soft tissue and bone with the Gold Dot going 1300fps?
    I'll stick to 200 grain Hornady XTP's loaded on top of a stiff charge of AA9 for real 10mm velocities.
     
  26. I have a few boxes of the new 200gr 10mm HST, bullet doesn't appear too much different than the 180gr HST, the hollow point isn't any deeper and the skives seem to be a bit shorter than the 180gr version, not sure how that will effect expansion.

    That said, I don't understand why so many are infatuated with the idea of using full power 10mm for "social" self defense. First off, no major ammo maker loads anything to 100%, it's a liability. I would say we're lucky that Federal even cared enough to offer an HST in 10mm, let alone a 200gr version when it would have been much easier to just use the 180gr bullet. Second, with truly full power loads you do get more recoil and blast, and speaking purely from a self defense perspective in regards to follow up shots, you don't want more when less is effective enough.

    A 200gr bullet at ~1100 fps isn't weak, sure it's not full power 10mm, but it doesn't have to be. Let's say Speer released a few more 10mm loads using Gold Dots, say a 165gr Gold Dot and they listed it as moving at 1300 fps. Some people would be pissed and write them a letter wondering why it's "only" 1300 fps when underwood loads it to 1400 fps, and that's silly. We can't and shouldn't expect that from a major ammo maker. Leave the absolute max loads for the woods.
     
  27. HST performance in General, and follow up shots is why I started considering them.
     
  28. If you aren’t going to use full power 10mm then what is the point of using 10mm? Just use 10x22mm.


    Sent from my iPhone using Glock Talk mobile app
     
  29. Just throwing this out there- if S&W made an M&P in 10mm, a 12in PDW in 10mm and sold that as a package to LE with 15 round mags in the pistol and 25 round mags in the PDW with cross compatibility; pair that with a 180gr load at 1200fps and you have a do-it-all inside 75yards patrol package. Just saying. You could probably get away with the same concept in .40 with a 165 @ 1175fps. Just my food for thought.

    And cue the 9mm crowd to say PCCs are worthless.

    Sent from my iPhone using Glock Talk mobile app
     
  30. 10x21 ? The .40 S&W is 22mm, so now you have my curiosity up.
     
  31. It's a prelude to suggesting that you use the 8x20 Longue. ;)
     
  32. Cool story bro lol
     
  33. It was just a typo. I meant 10x22mm.
     
  34. Maybe we should make a new one with 357 SIG brass, so it would be 10x23. We can call it the 10 GAP
     
  35. Personally, I find that using non nuclear powered 10mm loads to be quite enjoyable to shoot from my G29 and G20. I prefer shooting that combination with the large frame Glock platform to shooting 40 S&W from a G22 or G23. I will buy the HST 200 grain ammo as soon as SGAMMO has it in stock.
     
  36. Then why do you have 10mm guns? Not trying to be a smart ass but really? Most of the watered down factory stuff is just above .40 power levels.


    Sent from my iPhone using Glock Talk mobile app
     
  37. Federal is rolling this out as a PD round, therefore terminal ballistics dictates preferred velocity vs. max velocity. Too much or too little velocity makes for a fail in gel and not good for sales. Other options exist for full-house/hunting loads.
     
  38. Hammering them for 41fps difference in advertised velocity? (or am I missing something?) :dunno:
     

  39. I highlighted it. I find it funny that the 10mm is touted for it's versatility, and yet also criticized for it at times. The reason I like the 10mm is that I can choose to shoot really hot ammo, which I do have as well. The nice thing about the 10mm is that I have a choice in which power level ammo I carry and the fact that Federal is offering a production load for the caliber is a plus, in my opinion. I prefer the large frame Glocks because they are easier for me to handle with hot ammo. The 40, not so enjoyable. The large frame pistols also fit my hand better than the normal frame size models do. I hope they also offer something like a bit hotter 165 grain HST in the future as well.
     
  40. I agree. As far as a defensive load I think it would be great for what most people want in a defense load with the combination of performance and control. But no, it’s not a true 10mm with 10mm ballistics but I would be a good SD load. All of my carry guns are loaded with HST.
     
  41. I'm waiting until I can get them for less than $30 per 20 rounds, but I will definitely be trying them.
     
  42. I’ve seen them under 24.00 but then you have shipping.
     
  43. I missed out when sgammo had the 200 Gold Dots for $11.99
     
  44. I was looking through my chrono notes. Noticed the Hornady Custom 180 XTP was faster than this HST, and the ones I tested was before Hornady moved it to 1275 fps. But the HST is on par with the CD.


    Hornady Custom 180 XTP
    3.78" - 1128 & 509
    4.60" - 1210 & 585

    Hornady Critical Duty 175
    3.78" - 1083 & 456
    4.60" - 1146 & 510
     
  45. The chopping block has tested it. This picture came up on my YouTube. The bullets look impressive! [​IMG]
     
  46. The best part about those loads is,
    they are easy to duplicate in the 40s&w,
    Hodgdon data with Longshot powder.

    The 180gr XTP going 1160 fps in a
    four inch barrel and over 1200 fps
    in a 4.5'', my favorite JHP load.
     
  47. Wow, a .40 S&W will push a 180 over 1200? That's very impressive!
     
  48. An old post,

    https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/some-glock-20-questions.1647832/#post-23831429

    data from that post,

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    This is what I got in my
    guns,

    40 s&w,, RP brass
    CCI 500
    8 gr Longshot
    180 XTP HP
    1.135 TO 1.140 OAL
    3/8 Lee crimp
    50 degrees
    3900 ft elevation

    G27 OEM
    1114, 1094, 1098, 1097, 1106,,,,, AVE 1102 FPS

    G27 4.06'' th LW barrel
    1206, 1185, 1191,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,AVE 1194 FPS

    4.06'' LW G23 barrel in G27
    1178, 1182 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,AVE 1180 FPS

    G30 with a G29 4.6'' LW Ext
    10mm barrel, lots of free bore
    or would have been faster.
    1198, 1189, 1209, 1202, 1214,,,,AVE 1202 FPS

    G20 with 6'' LW 40 conversion barrel
    1249, 1247, 1246, 1224, 1259,,,, AVE 1245 FPS
    also throated long for loading to 10mm OAL with
    fat cast boolits.
    --------------------------------------------------------

    Many talk the 40 down and don't have any idea
    what it can do.

    Here is Hodgdon data, see for yourself, note when
    you compare the 10mm with the 40, the 40 has
    a four inch barrel and the 10mm has a five inch
    barrel, that can make a big difference.

    http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

    Some of my loads in the six inch barrel get around
    100 fps more than a four and 4.5''.
     
  49. That is 0.5 grains over max load of Longshot according the Hodgdon data you told me to look at. I'm attaching screenshots of the 40 with 180 and a 10mm with a 180.

    I dont doubt you're getting those speeds, because it's a 10mm starting load lol[​IMG][​IMG]