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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Advertised at 1130 fps. A fella at the 10mm forums tested them from a Glock 20, and he got 1089 fps.

I wrote Federal and asked about the lack of speed, and which barrel they used. As well I asked if the new HST was a new bullet or if it was originally meant for the .40 S&W, and if it would still perform down at 1000 fps from a Glock 29. Here is the reply they sent me.

Federal Premium said:
The bullet in P10HST1S is a new projectile designed specifically for 10mm. All HST projectiles are unique designs for their respective loads. This velocity was selected as it’s as fast as it could be pushed before a reduction in performance or excessive pressure. Pushing HST projectiles excessively fast tends to result in shorter penetration depths or loss of weight retention due to early, rapid expansion. Faster does not necessarily result in better terminal performance in defensive handgun loads. We set the requirements for optimal terminal performance, and develop the load to meet those requirements. Pressures needs to be checked at different temperatures. Most of the ultra-hot loaded products on the market exceed spec once you test to different temperature extremes. Velocity testing was conducted in a 5” test barrel. Terminal performance testing is conducted through several handgun platforms. Terminal performance for this load will be excellent in all platforms mentioned in the inquiry. Thank You Federal Ammunition Tech Services
I believe I'm going to start testing these for carry in my Glock 29. Albeit, they will only average 1015-1020 fps from the 3.77" barrel, but I carry mine with a 4.6" barrel. I've never seen an HST that didn't perform well.
 

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I’m sorry, but it begs the question-why? Those velocities just aren’t compelling to me when a 20 grains lighter HST will be in the same ball park from a smaller .40 Glock. The whole allure to 10mm is speed. This offering from Federal, albeit probably has great terminal performance just begs the question of what can this do that a 180gr .40 HST can’t?


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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
I’m sorry, but it begs the question-why? Those velocities just aren’t compelling to me when a 20 grains lighter HST will be in the same ball park from a smaller .40 Glock. The whole allure to 10mm is speed. This offering from Federal, albeit probably has great terminal performance just begs the question of what can this do that a 180gr .40 HST can’t?


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Did you read their reply to me? It's basically a big case of covering their ass on pressures.

.40 S&W
180 HST @ 1010 fps & 408 ft/lbs

10mm
200 HST @ 1130 fps & 567 ft/lbs

The heavier bullet is going to handle hard objects better. In hunting I've seen how much difference 20 grains can make vs bones. I'm betting when the jello mould tests start, this penetrates farther and leaves a bigger PWC, and probably expands to 1". Time will tell.

Honestly, I'd rather have the new 200 grain Gold Dot loaded by Underwood.
 
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I read the entire thing. I don’t think there will be that much of a real world difference between the two when used for their intended purposes. The 200gr will obviously penetrate deeper. That’s probably about it. Not saying it’s a bad load. It just doesn’t seem to offer much over their .40 loads. That being said I would be shocked if they could load that bullet in .40 and still make 950fps from a 4 inch. There are a few 200gr .40 loads floating around. If the 10mm is 1015 and the 40 (from a 27) was around 930 that doesn’t seem like a huge difference. Just my opinion.

I agree it’s just CYA. They’re loading it for the guys who rechambers the same round 100 times and sets the bullet back.


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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Buy Underwood Gold Dots, those loads are no joke.
I have them, in 165 and 180. Along with the Noslers in 135 and 200, and the XTP's in 155, 180, and 200. Hey, I like Underwood.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
I read the entire thing. I don’t think there will be that much of a real world difference between the two when used for their intended purposes. The 200gr will obviously penetrate deeper. That’s probably about it. Not saying it’s a bad load. It just doesn’t seem to offer much over their .40 loads. That being said I would be shocked if they could load that bullet in .40 and still make 950fps from a 4 inch. There are a few 200gr .40 loads floating around. If the 10mm is 1015 and the 40 (from a 27) was around 930 that doesn’t seem like a huge difference. Just my opinion.

I agree it’s just CYA. They’re loading it for the guys who rechambers the same round 100 times and sets the bullet back.


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Underwood .40 s&w 200's from a 4" barrel is 950.

I see your point and I will edit my statement. I will start testing these for carry. I would never just switch and assume they're perfect ya know?

As I added above, I'd much rather have the new 10mm 200 grain Gold Dot, only loaded to 1200. We have a fellow on the 10mm forums who is gel testing the new 200 GD. He will be testing them stock, and pulling some for hotter loading. He will be gel testing those in the 1200-1250 range.
 
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Buy Underwood Gold Dots, those loads are no joke.
Loading an HST (shallow penetrating) for woods use and neglecting to state that the test barrel was 5 inches knowing everyone would assume the test barrel was the standard 4 inches is a joke. Seems they are throwing something new out with the old reliable HST name but in reality it's not much more than another sales gimmick, which has become the hallmark of big ammo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Loading an HST (shallow penetrating) for woods use and neglecting to state that the test barrel was 5 inches knowing everyone would assume the test barrel was the standard 4 inches is a joke. Seems they are throwing something new out with the old reliable HST name but in reality it's not much more than another sales gimmick, which has become the hallmark of big ammo.
It's pretty common knowledge test barrels for 10mm is 5 inches. That's what Underwood uses too. Winchester is the odd ball, they use 5.5" for the Silvertips.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
JMO, but I think Federal would have been better off designing a 10mm specific 180gr HST that they could safely load to 1220fps.


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I agree with you. I think the reason the new Gold Dot and the HST is 200, is because that's what Cooper wanted. So they are trying to sell on Nostalgia, I guess you might say.

Why not something odd to stand out? 185 grain at 1250 ?
 

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I’m sorry, but it begs the question-why? Those velocities just aren’t compelling to me when a 20 grains lighter HST will be in the same ball park from a smaller .40 Glock. The whole allure to 10mm is speed. This offering from Federal, albeit probably has great terminal performance just begs the question of what can this do that a 180gr .40 HST can’t?
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What if, say, that projectile were used with , say, a hypothetical 10x20 round?

Keith
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
What if, say, that projectile were used with , say, a hypothetical 10x20 round?

Keith
You talking about a .400" bore cartridge, with brass 2mm shorter than the .40 S&W?
 

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What if, say, that projectile were used with , say, a hypothetical 10x20 round?

Keith
Hypotheticals light my fire. Go check that thread out. Its a good one. LOL

But, to answer your question- a hypothetical 10x20mm round would result in absolute obliteration of whatever it struck upon impact. I'm talking instant terminal effect. That round would be so badass Nancy needs to write some preemptive legislation banning it. That would make me feel safer.
 

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JMO, but I think Federal would have been better off designing a 10mm specific 180gr HST that they could safely load to 1220fps.


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That would certainly be a first class SD round for the 10 mm, but the heavy for caliber "bear load" seems to be the fashion now so $$$ rules. Underwood offers a GD 165 gr .40 at 1200 fps. which is the next best thing for you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
That would certainly be a first class SD round for the 10 mm. Underwood offers a GD 165 gr .40 at 1200 fps.
Now that I've had a couple days to think about this, I see it differently. It seems like Federal can't or won't design a bullet that can actually handle REAL 10MM speeds. Kind of seems like they just threw a 180 HST in the copier and hit 110%.
 

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Now that I've had a couple days to think about this, I see it differently. It seems like Federal can't or won't design a bullet that can actually handle REAL 10MM speeds. Kind of seems like they just threw a 180 HST in the copier and hit 110%.
The people who came up with the ideal of a heavy HST were thinking more about their bottom line than they were about their product. I think the industry is worried that Trump will be reelected and their sales will be flat for years to come, so they're coming out with new gun models aimed at the masses (9mm) and sales gimmicks for ammo trying to do anything they can to boost sales.

They don't have the great guns and ammo salesman Obama any more so now they're having to hustle for a buck.
 
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