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FBI; Harries; Ayoob - How do you see in the dark?

Discussion in 'Tactics and Training' started by yesitsloaded, Mar 25, 2010.

  1. yesitsloaded

    yesitsloaded

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    Just received this article on 'Flashlight Teqnique' in an E-Mail Blast - made me wonder- how do you prefer to 'see in the dark' and why?

    Skill Set: Modified Flashlight Technique

    by Rich Grassi

    When I find a better way to do something, I generally adopt it. In the realm of flashlight techniques, we can go from the original (as far as I knew) FBI technique, to the Harries, to the Chapman and the Ayoob variant that followed, to the Surefire syringe-cigar-Z Combatlight hold . . . uh, to a gunmounted light. (It can be hard to keep track . . .)

    <table align="right"> <tbody> <tr> <td style="margin: 0px; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">[​IMG] Neck index around right side cover has the flashlight shining onto the cover item and back into your face.
    </td></tr></tbody></table>One of my instructors at the job took a class from Surefire's training division back when and he came back with another technique - the neck index is the name by which I knew it. Basically, the nongun hand has the flashlight and actually anchors the light at about the level of the jaw while you manage the shooting problem one-handed. While I'm a fan of the neck index, especially in conjunction with the modern modification of the FBI technique. Still, you don't want to be one trick pony. It's important to have a few tools in the tool box.

    For example, if you're right handed and you approach a corner you'd peer around from the right, the neck index flashlight technique serves to light up the wall and, by extension, you without going into the target area. The flashlight is on your left side and it's blocked by the wall. No biggie. Approach that corner and slip into the Harries technique. It plants the light on the right side of the gun (assuming a right handed shooter) and puts light where you need it.

    <table align="right"> <tbody> <tr> <td style="margin: 0px; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">[​IMG] Mike Seeklander shows head index with light shifted to go around cover item. With light at eye level, it's more in line with the eyes and sights.
    </td></tr></tbody></table>Last fall, I found myself at the U.S. Shooting Academy, Tulsa OK - a place I should have attended long ago! I met Mike Seeklander there. Mike is a nationally ranked action pistol shooter and Chief Operating Officer of the U.S. Shooting Academy. He has quite a past, as he's a Desert Shield/Desert Storm combat veteran, former police officer and SORT member, Branch Chief and lead instructor for the Firearms division, and an instructor for the Tactics and Physical Training divisions at the Federal Air Marshal Training Division in Atlantic City, NJ.

    Mike modified the neck index technique and demonstrated it for us. He brings the light up about the level of his temple/eye. As the flashlight is at about eye level instead of along the jaw, we're closer to lighting up what the eye sees. Instead of lighting up your hand and back of the gun, the light goes onto and over the sights.

    In our earlier neck index example, if light would end up behind cover, you go to Harries - but why? Using a "wrong side" neck index, you have to fold the wrist to get light on sights - and it still lights up the back of gun. Hold light to strong side temple, back of hand, not the knuckle, against your nugget. <table align="right"> <tbody> <tr> <td style="margin: 0px; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">[​IMG] A view of the head index with light on the gun side of the user out in the open.
    </td></tr></tbody></table>If knuckle is contact, the light goes out to the right side for a right handed person shooter. With the back of the hand against the temple, the light tracks closer to the eye.

    We want to thank Mike Seeklander for explaining and demonstrating the technique for our readers. I believe there is improvement in using a head index over the neck index, but like anything else its effectiveness will depend on the user's practice.

     
  2. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    I've always felt it important not to take flashlight "techniques" for granted.

    The introduction of the smaller lights many years ago, and the increasingly smaller models in the ensuing years, has offered us many more choices, advantages and options when it comes to employing hand held lights.

    I spent many years working an assignment where I was constantly using one or another small hand held light inside buildings and structures at least several times a day. Flat & angled surfaces of walls, fixtures, furniture, equipment, corners, low ceilings, balconies, lofts, warehouses, etc., and how it can all be found in constantly changing conditions, sometimes in weird juxtapostion to each other, can make for situations where some creative positioning of the light source relative to the user seems prudent.

    Reflection and back splash when moving among objects with different surfaces and angles can create some potential issues. It's not always as simple as just illuminating something, right? ;)

    Then there's the whole working with a partner, or partners, consideration.

    I've tried a number of different flashlight 'techniques' over the years, with a number of different flashlights.

    I feel it pays to remain flexible and open to using a hand held light source in its most effective manner, suitable to the circumstances, while keeping user safety & exposure issues in mind, especially when used with a handgun.

    It's always interesting to see more thoughts offered on this seemingly simple (anything but) subject. Even if it's just a rehash of info. Sometimes we can forget some of the simple things.

    Thanks.
     

  3. Deaf Smith

    Deaf Smith

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    It most certainly does!

    While I'm not a big fan of gun mounted lights on pistols, the technique of using a flashlight and handgun is defiantly a must-learn. There are many variations of the basic methods and they are most useful.

    I live with an E2D Defender. I mean live with it. It's always with me either in the jacket pocket or a pants pocket. Even though my Glock as night sights the flashlight is still needed to identify what you are looking at.

    Yes it's good to see this stuff again.

    Deaf
     
  4. lethal tupperwa

    lethal tupperwa

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    You know, years ago, we were taught to hold the light up and away from our body.

    So that when our light was used as an aiming point we just might be missed.
     
  5. degoodman

    degoodman Out of Columbus

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    I agree that we need to practice our flashlight techniques, and we need to be flexible and adjust the technique to match the situation.

    But the technique presented at the end strikes me as creating more problems than it solves. Having the light right next to your eyes is not a good place for it. that close to your eyes and in your periphery, unless you're in a NASA clean room you're going to have the "twinkles" with the light strongly reflecting off every piece of dust in the air, and distracting you badly in the process.

    You're also taking away a pretty good piece of peripheral vision that might be the difference between seeing someone approaching from your strong side, and missing them completely until they stove yuor head in.

    Finally, you're wrapping your arm under your own chin? How are you going to turn your head to see anything. and if someone sneaks up behind you and grabs the wrist holding the light, you are in your own headlock.

    I think this technique might need a little more flushing out before its pronounced good to go.
     
  6. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

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    Tried it. IMO:

    Unlike the standard neck index, this locks you into a very linear view and engagement pattern. If you're going to stand and fight from a single piece of cover, fine. If you're going to move from (say) one pillar to another in a parking garage, or work with a partner, you give up a lot. The transition into or especially out of the pictured position to strong side cover has the light coming directly in front of your face. Dazzling yourself might happen, but the real problem is that your body doesn't have the ability to roll towards movement--or a threat--to your strong side.

    Fight in a hallway, okay. Move up from cover to clear a car, not liking it. Again IMO, someone found a solution for shooting flat targets from a predetermined position and wants it to work in the 3D world against opponents who move around.
     
  7. yesitsloaded

    yesitsloaded

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    Excellent responses - thanks.

    So many threads on grip; aim; tactics and the like, but not much (or much recently) on no/low light situations.

    Also, I don't have CCW rigs that allow for me to carry a weapon-mounted-light, so in addition to my weapon, spare mag and folder/auto, I always have a light.

    ---------------------------

    Excerpts below are from the "SureFire Institute Low-Light Tactics Level One Operator/Trainer Course" manual:

    • As a general rule, moving to the lowest level of light provides more concealment than operating in areas with higher levels of light.

    • In a low-light environment you are most visible and vulnerable when backlit.

    • Keeping the flashlight on continuously may make searching easier, as well as reassuring, but it also makes you a target while letting the aggressor know how far your are from his position, what direction your are coming from, and when you will be there.

    • Activating the light away from centerline, at intermittent and irregular intervals, while alternating the light position from low to high, will confuse your opponent while making it harder for them to determine your position.

    • In most cases—when searching for, or engaging a hostile subject, constant light should only be used in two situations:

    (1.) when your are backlit and cannot move to a less backlit position, and
    (2.) when your subject has been located and is not an immediate threat.

    • When searching for or engaging a known-deadly force threat, your gun, flashlight and eyes should be aligned to the same point of focus.


    PHOTOS BELOW
    : 1.) Ayoob; 2.) Chapman; 3.) Harries; 4.) Modified FBI; 5.) Rogers-SureFire
     
  8. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

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    Gotta comment. Too many people are going to read this without the training. Worse, they're not going to pay attention to every word.

    This applies when you're hunting a bad guy who can kill you. Period, full stop.

    This does NOT apply when you're trying to find out what made that noise down the hallway.

    Frankly, too many average guys tend to go looking for the CAG solution to their more mundane problems. Use the right tools and the right tactics for the situation. If homeowners and CCW guys are hunting in the dark for a known lethal threat, there are some serious issues. If the homeowner/CCW is absoultely sure that there is no way whatsoever that an innocent might be out there, then he might be justified in searching with eyes/light/gun at the same point of focus....as long as the walls will catch his bullet and the people in the next apartment won't be endangered when he discovers how startle response works.

    In short, there's a difference between a search and a hunt.

    Just thought that it needed to be said.
     
  9. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    Good point Sam ...

    This is one of the reasons why I discourage the use of a weapon light for general illumination while looking around, especially by untrained folks.
     
  10. yesitsloaded

    yesitsloaded

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    Very true.

    Words of wisdom and precaution are always appropriate - guess I (like most of us) just assume that posts will be read with a modicum of common sense and people will act within their abilities when attempting techniques proffered by others. I speak from a law enforcement perspective - probably should of tailored it to my audience - thanks.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2010
  11. CAcop

    CAcop

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    I use 1-4 at work. #4 is what I use at home for the most part because you don't have to have the gun with the light. There have been a few times I have cleared the house to lacate the wife when she hears something.
     
  12. yesitsloaded

    yesitsloaded

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    LOL - I get the elbow and then the 'go gettem rambo' often at night too!
     
  13. threefeathers

    threefeathers Scouts Out

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    At LFI II and III Mas teaches all of he techniques as you may have to use all in a single CQB situation. He also wants ingenuity in training and use. I like all for specific purposes but if I have a druther it is his modification for one of the reasons he developed it, you can see your sights. Remember unless you have a Rat trapped and you don't care if you give yourself away, do not keep your light on all the time. Quick spots of light, change position of the light if you have drilled all of them, and move away from where you gave your position away.
     
  14. threefeathers

    threefeathers Scouts Out

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    Oh, most of the time weapon lights on a handgun suck. Lasers are a different story.
     
  15. Hedo1

    Hedo1

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    If at all possible turn on the lights, especially if you are at home. No need to use a flashlight unless you have to.

    If using a flashlight out of necessity be mindful of your environment. A big open space might lend itself to a one armed technique. Using that same technique in a tight space may give your opponent and advantage if he grabs your gun and knows how to take it from you. The "modified FBI" picture above is a good example of a pistol in prime position for a gun grab.
     
  16. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

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    ?????

    Stupid character limit...
     
  17. piebiter

    piebiter

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    I don't like nor use weapon mounted lights. I use either a SureFire 6P or a Streamlight Scorpion handheld flashlight. As to grip, #3.
     
  18. CAcop

    CAcop

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    I am not a fan of weapon mounted lights either. I think in time they will be better. Probably when weapons are designed from the ground up to be sold with lights rather than take existing designs and throwing some rail on the end. Picture a weapon with a light hosing molded or machined as part of the dustcover with replaceable lights, lenses, and batteries. Maybe even going as far as running the switching through the triggerguard to the grip.

    I did use them for awhile but I am just not sold on them.
     
  19. G22Dude

    G22Dude

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    Mike Seeklander the guy in the photo was one of my firearms instructors at FLETC. The guy is a machine
     
  20. threefeathers

    threefeathers Scouts Out

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    As a stupid character I do have my limits. :wavey: