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Discussion in 'The .40 S&W Club' started by mc1911, Nov 10, 2012.
Thank's for all the info you have given.
Might as well post up a few more I ran today. A little bit more of a mixture, but it sure is a good mix. Since I was going to run some warm handloads, I just shot all loads through the 6" KKM barrel in my Gen4 G35, other than that the gun is stock. Velocities as always are averages. Temp out side around 75 degrees.
180gr Missouri TCFP, 5.0gr HP38 @ 1.125": 1,070 fps (13 fps ES)
180gr Montana Gold JHP, 6.5gr Unique @ 1.120" (1x Win, Fed SP): 1,207 fps (5 fps ES!!)
This is a very consistent load that still hits hard (over 580 ft-lbs at muzzle) and is in my opinion plenty fast for any 180gr JHP bullet, but with that said, it's still fun to play around.
Strange as it may sound, I have a moniker for my warm .40's: ".400 S&W"
Before I post this data, let me again warn that these are over book max charges that are what I have deemed to be safe in MY GUN. DO NOT just drop these loads in a stock Glock barrel, work them up first. I use a well supported KKM barrel that is 6" long and use the stock Gen4 RSA. These are also seated to the longest OAL that will reliably feed in a Glock .40 S&W magazine (1.150").
180gr XTP, 9.0gr 800x @ 1.150": (1x Fed, CCI SP): 1,358 fps (12 fps ES!) That's 737 ft-lbs
200gr XTP, 8.2gr 800x @ 1.150": (1x Fed, CCI SP): 1,244 fps (22 fps ES!) That's 687 ft-lbs
Brass looked good! No bulges in the KKM barrel and the primers didn't even look very flat.
Also I wanted to add my very first attempt at LONG load .40! My KKM barrels will accept .40's out to 10mm OAL, 10mm data can be used, it just makes the .40 S&W Glock a single shot since the rounds are obviously too long to seat in the magazine, only 1 fits.
180gr Rem JHP, 9.2gr Longshot @ 1.250" (1x Win .40 S&W, Fed SP): 1,351 fps (6" bbl)
Didn't want to use book max so I did 9.2gr instead of 9.5gr Longshot. However, compare that to the 1.150" loaded 800x load above, which is faster. It is cool to be able to use your .40 as a 10mm, even if it is a single shot.
I meant to post this with the last post, but I did run a few through the little Kahr CM40 (3" bbl).
180gr Missouri TCFP, 5.0gr HP38 @ 1.125": 990 fps (9 fps ES!)
200gr Missouir TCFP, 7.0gr 800x @ 1.125" (1x Speer Nickel, Fed SP): 1,052 fps (9 fps ES!) For 491 ft-lbs
The HP38 load averaged 1070 fps from the 6" KKM, so as you see some powders don't really gain much even though in this case, there's twice the amount of barrel.
The 200gr hardcast was an effort to mimic the 200gr "Outdoorsman" load from Buffalo Bore, and well, I exceeded it. They claim 1000 fps from a 4-4.5" bbl, I averaged over 1050 from a 3". But I will say this, it recoils. Keep in mind too that the factory Hornady 10mm 200 XTP is rated at 1050 fps from a 5" barrel. Not bad for a pocket .40!
Ran a couple of factory loads too:
Speer 155gr Gold Dot: 1,104 fps (56 fps ES)
CorBon 135gr PowR Ball: 1,240 fps (58 fps ES)
Not terrible, but not the most consistent. The Triton 135gr JHP runs 1260 from the CM40, just a little faster than the CorBon. Seems odd, but I prefer 135gr bullets to be below 1300 fps since their section density is so poor driving them faster just seems diminish penetration and cause the bullet to break up more.
The 155gr Gold Dots were kind of old too, I wanted to shoot them up since I have a much newer box now. 1100 fps is a touch on the slow side it seems, as that's what most factory 165gr JHP's hover at from the short 3" barreled Kahr.
No problem Happy, maybe some people will gain some info from all of this. Oh BTW, that link was interesting! They got some 9mm loads to some smokin' velocities!!
I don't load for the 9mm anymore, but I used to play around with it some. It's no problem for 124gr bullets to hover at and above 1,350 fps from a G34, which I thought was pretty darn fast for a 9mm!
Thanks agan, here is the thread that got me started with the 9mm major.
It is 20 pages long.
That forum has a lot of good molds; I'm waiting to see how my pistols do with the second one below.
I am getting the 170gr too.
I would like both but that's a lot of money.
Stay off that site or it will cost you much money,
I have probably got close to 50 molds.
I started reloading in 66 and started casting in 79.
I wanted to post an update.
I found a good deal on a Gen4 G20. I hesitated to get it but I didn't want to pass it up either, so I bought it. But that doesn't mean I'm done with warm .40's, actually I bought a 6" KKM .40 conversion barrel for the 20. That means I can long load the .40's to 10mm length and the G20 mag will hold them, plus I can still shoot normal OAL .40 loads (and experiment with everything in between too!).
There is added advantage here too since the G20 slide is heavier than my G35 slide so that will not only help recoil but it will have slower slide speed. Additionally, I have some 24lb ISMI springs coming to help it out even more. That way I can use 24lb with my .45 Super warm loads as well as my warm .40's and warm 10mm's.
I plan to load up some warm 10mm too like I did in the past, but most of what it will see will be .40's. It's a good thing I've got tons of .40 brass because trying to find 10mm brass right now is tough!
Got the KKM G20 .40 S&W conversion barrel in today, and the 20 isn't even here yet! Adding to the fact that the G20 itself is heavier than the G35, the KKM conversion barrel is noticeably heavier than the KKM G24 bbl so the extra heft should really ease recoil and be easier on brass. I snapped a few pictures to show the difference.
It's the same length (both 6") but the G20 version is wider and heavier. KKM G24 on the left, KKM 10mm conversion barrel on the right.
The walls are thicker too on the conversion bbl, more material is a good thing:
So the main reason I even got the 20 was to shoot long loaded .40's. So I was really hoping the new conversion barrel would be reamed at least as much as my G24 and G23 KKM barrel. It is! Here's a picture of a .40 S&W (180gr Rem JHP) loaded to 10mm OAL of 1.260":
Yeah it looks a little odd, but it works. So the conversion barrel, while a .40, is also a 10mm since long loaded .40 is a 10mm, there's no difference. Well...at least with the heavier bullets. I can see issues loading some 135gr or maybe even 155gr to 1.260", but that's no biggie, I can load them anywhere from 1.100" to over 1.260" if I want, so plenty of room to play. All this with the added advantage of the stronger .40 S&W case.
This is just to show the same bullet above (long loaded 1.260" .40) seated in the KKM conversion barrel:
Anyways, it should be fun!
good deal, I am looking forward to your results.
Lone Wolf has sent my G30 Rowland barrels.
That's excellent Happie, I hope they run well for you and get a lot of enjoyment out of them. Make sure to post up a report!
I got to run a few more the other day, nothing extraordinary but I'm glad I got to run a few. Both loads are using 1x Blazer brass and CCI SP primers.
Gen4 Glock 23:
180gr Z-cast hardcast, 6.0gr WSF @ 1.125": 1,027 fps. Nicely consistent and not too smokey.
180gr Gold Dot, 7.5gr Power Pistol @ 1.125": 1,130 fps. I have to admit, I like this load. Recoil isn't too bad and Power Pistol again proves itself to be very consistent.
And a couple more:
Gen4 Glock 23 .40 S&W
135gr Nosler JHP, 10.8gr Power Pistol @ 1.125": 1,439 fps
155gr Speer Gold Dot, 9.4gr Power Pistol @ 1.125": 1,283 fps
165gr Speer Gold Dot, 8.2gr Power Pistol @ 1.125": 1,213 fps
Glock 23 Gen4 with KKM barrel (4" barrel)
All use 1x Federal brass and CCI SP primers. Don't use in stock barrel, drop by 10% if you do.
180gr XTP, 9.0gr 800x @ 1.140": 1,195 fps (571 ft-lbs)
180gr RFNP hardcast, 9.0gr 800x @ 1.135": 1,228 fps (603 ft-lbs)
200gr XTP, 8.2gr 800x @ 1.140": 1,095 fps (532 ft-lbs)
200gr Beartooth WFNGC, 8.2gr 800x @ 1.125": 1,126 fps (563 ft-lbs)
Thanks for the info on the deer hunting loads.
Do you like 800x best for max loads.
So far the best I have got with my g27 is, Speer brass, cci 500,lee 182gr.cast oal 1.119, 7.2gr Longshot,
OEM barrel 1073fps
LW 4.06'' barrel 1159fps
7.2gr is not max so I will go farther as everything looks good
I still need to make some changes to the bullet, it is too fat
to feed 100%, it shoots good in BOTH barrels.
I think I will get a throating reamer so I can seat bullets longer, the magazine will hold 1.170 oal with most bullets.
Happie, yes I think 800x is my favorite for both the .40 and 10mm. 3N38 is right there with it, but it's so hard to find not too many people use it.
I loaded a few more last night and shot them today, posted below this. I'm not too familiar with the LW barrels like what you have, but I have heard that they often have short throats on them, so it wouldn't be a bad idea to ream it out a little more. Even like you have it, a 182gr hardcast at over 1150 is still a stout load!
Just a few more, same exact setup. Same 1x Federal brass and CCI SP primers.
Shot through Chrony F-1 tripod mounted and leveled up nice.
Glock 23 Gen4, stock RSA unit and a KKM 4" barrel.
165gr Gold Dot, 9.7gr 800x @ 1.130": 1,297 fps (616 ft-lbs)
200gr WFNGC, 8.0gr 800x @ 1.100": 1,152 fps (589 ft-lbs)
I shorted the OAL of the 200gr WFNGC because yesterday I got a couple of stovepipes loaded to 1.125". It might have been an isolated instance but I shorted them up and they ran smoothly today.
Brass from KKM barrel looked great. I did also run a few experimental 135gr and 155gr loads with 800x, but they were disasters...terribly inconsistent with both of them giving nasty 80-100fps extreme spreads. Oh well, if I can get them more consistent I'll post those up.
Hey SD, what recoil spring setup are you using with the warm .40 loads in your Gen4 G23? I have a the same gun but haven't run max loads in it yet. Did run max loads in a Gen 4 G22 with a 24# spring. Seemed to handle it ok.
I've been debating my G23/G32 as a woods carry for finishing shots on game and can't decide between Sig and .40.
The factory Glock .357 barrel is the best supported of the bunch with a nice tight chamber so hot loads are fine in it. Not sure if I want to stay with the limitations of the stock .40 barrel with the benefit of perhaps better feed reliability or go with a KKM.
Cycle, this last go around with the heavy 165, 180, and 200gr loads I used the stock Gen4 RSA. While I do have a 22lb spring for the 23 (using gen3 adapter), it doesn't really seem to me to offer any more resistance which is why I wanted to try the Gen4 recoil assembly.
I had a G32 barrel for the 23 for years and can attest to how well they are supported, the best support I've seen in a factory Glock barrel for sure. But you know, I've ran some rather stout loads through the stock Gen4 G23 barrel too with no ill effects. It's not as well supported as the KKM barrel is, but it really isn't bad either. For what it's worth, even in the stock barrel, depending on powder used and the bullet, I can get roughly within 50 fps of the KKM barrel. I don't use loads quite as warm in the stock barrel, but it's still able to pump out some good numbers, from a 4" barrel anyways.
As for reliability, the KKM barrel has been very reliable as a whole. I did have that bobble the other day, but I think that was mainly due to either it didn't like the OAL of the load I had or it could have been because I was using an OLD 10rd mag I've had for over a decade with the original OLD follower in it..plus the spring in that mag have never been changed either, so a somewhat weak magazine spring coupled with the higher slide speed the warmer loads dish out could have been the reason too. I almost lean that way because my KKM G23 will eat 170gr SWC hardcasts like candy and ask for more, a profile that will quickly jam on you if your barrel doesn't like it.
The 357 Sig is a good cartridge no doubt about it, I just typically prefer the ability to have a bigger, heavier bullet especially out in the woods. Those warmer 180gr and 200gr loads are at or over 600 ft-lbs.