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Discussion in 'Political Issues' started by Skyhook, Oct 10, 2012.
Why do you read such stuff?
To get to the roots of your inspiration
The little boys with their harvard mba's, whatever, are the ones who did such an expert job of crashing the U.S. economy. Blue collar Americans were busy going to work each day.
Why are you so impressed with the mba screw-up?
Evil? In the post-modern world, evil is just a silly word used by moralists. It has no place in discussions about business... or taxation. After all, if one cannot expect businesses to act in a morally but to always and only be concerned about their bottom line regardless of who gets hurt, then why oh why would anyone expect that a tax code would be moral, regardless of who gets hurt.
More people going after the 47%.
Have you examined who they are? Largely the elderly, who have worked for decades and are no longer working so do you really expect them to be paying income tax? And also the working poor. Who are working, and ARE contributing in the form of payroll taxes (Social security, medicare) as well as state taxes, local taxes, sales taxes, excise taxes, etc. As a percentage of income, even with zero federal income tax, many are still paying a reasonably high percentage towards taxes.
So you're saying the elderly and working poor don't contribute? Well boo hoo...go cry in your bedroom....most of those have worked, or are currently working, just as hard as the average person around here. And those two categories are the bulk of the 47 percent you and romney dismiss.
You obviously are delusional. You don't have to live that way. There is help available. Contact your physician and see if he will call a prescription in for you.
The only reason to collect taxes in a free society is to fund the operation of government. All other purposes are immoral, being nothing more than theft using the threat of the force of government as a weapon.
But they control 90% of the wealth. Therefore, they should pay 90% of the taxes. http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
When you're collecting money at gunpoint, the last thing you want is to be dragged into a discussion about the morality of it all. The above is a tacit admission that taxation is morally no different than mob-extracted "protection money."
You have, wilfully been led into confusing "creating" with "controlling". The Create companies that have multi-million dollar payrols. obviously that payrol becomes the employees to "control".
Why are the wealthy not entitled to keep the rewards from their efforts at the same proportion as everyone else? Are they LESS valuable than their employees BECAUSE they created the employee's jobs? I would argue that the person who creates, say, 100 taxpaying jobs, ought to get a "break" to reward him, not punished for doing it.
So the rest of us have to take up the slack?
How about we solve the moral dilemma by noting that taking money from individuals by threats of violence is primitive, evil, and we just stop doing it?
So how do we finance the government?
As any other service is financed by civilized, non-violent people.
More money in the hands of the private sector creates more taxpaying, wealth creating jobs. giving it to the government to redistribute does just the opposite.
So you're arguing that we have too many taxes?
Easy - 10-15-25 corperate! Over and done zero loopoles-no deductions ! Then everyone has a little skin in the game ! A one page tax code- not 18000 pages!
MBA is supposed to stand for Master of Business Administration, not Master of Business Assassination.
You mean to tell me that during the reign of GWB from 2000-2004 the percentage of zero or negative tax liability filers went up 8%?
And during Obama's administration 2008-2012 it went up an astounding 8%?
Oh, the humanity...
Objectively speaking, the elderly may very well be one of the largest areas of concern. Why? As one of the ones under the age of 45 I realize all the money Ive paid into social security and Medicare will never be received or at the very least nowhere close to what I have contributed. As the elderly continue to push for getting whats mine they show absolutely no regard for future generations. Selfishly, I understand this perspective. Realistically, the idea of retirement in this country needs a serious redefinition. My BILs father retired as a teacher at 55 with full pension and medical benefits he is 73 now. An elderly lady I visit weekly is 99 she retired after 27 years on federal pension and has been drawing benefits and pay for 44 years. She has been paid more in retirement than she ever made while working. What happened 100 years ago when people got old
they continued to work or their families helped out. Im not saying have these people starve in the streets but at some point the choices THEY made in regards to health, lifestyle and education should be held accountable to them. Case in Point: that 99 year old invested well, had no children and lived her entire life as if it was the Great Depression as it relates to spending. Even today in her assisted living facility (which SHE pays $7,000 a month for) she asks me to constantly turn off her AC or heat even though she doesnt directly pay for it. As one of the 53%, Im sick and tired of paying for other peoples bad choices.
When I need to try and reform someones flawed thinking as it relates to the poor I have found I need to start small. Answer this simple question: If someone is making minimum wage, working full time and making a gross salary of $15,080 a year is it fair to ask this person to pay $1 in federal taxes? The obvious answer is yes. If you cant answer yes then you havent thought through since this is the same person who drives on the same roads you and I do, went to the same schools, uses the same post office, is protected by the same military etc. If you can answer yes
you have elevated your thinking past the b.s class warfare politicians thrive off of and you are FOR raising taxes on the poor. Remember, these 47% of Americans have no legal tax liability yet use all the services I mentioned just like the guy who makes $100K.
The second problem is poor shouldnt be a category but a moment in time however, many Americans have made this a career. My wifes grandmas neighbors- FOUR generations under the same roof on welfare. The great grandfather is 53
do the math.
I have been poor I had a grocery budget of $20 a week
a ½ gallon of milk was a luxury. I also had no a/c, cell phone, cable, video game consoles, health insurance and put exactly $5 in gas in my car every week BTW, the car was an old Escort hand me down which carried no insurance. I worked hard like a regular 40 hour a week job and tended bar every Friday and Saturday night for 4 years then switched to adding alternating Sundays for another two years in my 20s (do the math thats 58-70 hours a week). I work hard now-last year I was on a project working between 65-80 hours a week from February through August. I can do the math the elderly today are basically robbing me of my money tomorrow.
You are right though
the poor do pay taxes. No one said they dont pay anything the point is they dont pay Federal Tax which is a point no one can argue against because they dont. However, as someone who isnt poor guess what
I pay federal tax along with everything else the poor do
sales, property, state income, etc.
Citizens for Tax Justice produces an overall tax burden every year based on income this is what percentage of your income ends up back in the governments hands (Federal, State or Local). Ironically, the percentages are pretty similar at it relates to the total income made in this country. The richest 1% make about 20% of the income
and pay about 20% of all taxes
.the richest 10% make about 46% of the income..and pay about 48% of the total taxes. The poor? Make about 3.4% of the income and pay about 2.1% of the overall taxes.
The point is people demonize the rich
or in this case the ones of us who pay into the system
guess what: We pay our fair share of taxes. The poor dont why? Our income is based off of working where the income of the nonworking poor is based off of what the government takes from my check. A nonworking member of the poor should not live better than a working member but guess what, in many many cases they do. My MIL is one of them. On disability at 55 she gets food stamps, her disability check, heating and electric assistance for a time, low rent housing ($276 a month which includes utilities now) and her Medicaid coverage and benefits is better than what I get working. She spends her days gardening, reading all the books she wants, watches all the movies and TV she wants. Is she driving a Mercedes-no. Does she live basically a carefree lifestyle because of her own choices (aka smoking)
yep. Are you and me paying for it..yep. I saw the medical bills and payments for her inpatient stays over the past two years. She exhausted what she paid into the system after her 10th month.
You cant lift the poor by penalizing the rest
and candidly its not my job to take care of someone else I dont care to or someone who doesnt want to take care of themselves
And for the record: let me introduce you to Pauline (aka the 99 year old) and let her talk to you about the Great Depression
this country needs to redefine poor. When being without a cell phone, cable and internet makes you poor we have serious problems.
Might as well throw this in: what do you think is going to happen to all those 47%ers when the system crashes; it hard to predict but mathematically we are close to a system reboot
dont think so
look at Greece, Spain. France, Ireland, etc.