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FAA Investigates

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by MLM, Jul 16, 2012.

  1. MLM

    MLM

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    In the next county over there was this little single prop airplane that over shot the runway and ended up in the brush. The couple that were in the plane were not injured in any way and exited the plane and were waiting by the plane when the Rescue Squad showed up.
    The FAA is suppose to investigate the accident in the morning.
    How come the FAA investigates any/every little thing that involves airplanes? Does some pilot misjudging the length and runs out of runway merits a full blown FAA investigation?
    Our tax dollars at work.
     
  2. Johnspark

    Johnspark Grumpy Fish

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    There are things to get fussy about and then there is this.
     

  3. Jonesee

    Jonesee

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    Last edited: Jul 16, 2012
  4. c6601a

    c6601a

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    The investigation often reveals problems with aircraft, maintenance or training that leads to system-wide changes. You may not see a connection, but the reality is that lessons learned from thousands of investigations like this is what enables airlines to transport hundreds of millions of passengers without a fatal accident.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2012
  5. larry_minn

    larry_minn Silver Member Millennium Member

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    Got to justify workforce. Not FAA but having to deal with government officials...... PITA. Waste of my time (and everyones tax dollars)
    Worst thing is damage is NOT allowed to be fixed/added damage stopped UNTIL they say.

    I.E I saw a plane that ground looped. Was first person on scene. Nobody injured. Would be two days before he could set plane upright.......
     
  6. OrangePwr9

    OrangePwr9

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    There's a huge body of Federal regulations that governs everything done in aviation. Not just aircraft operation but aircraft maintenance, aircraft certification, airman certification, airman currency requirements, runway marking, runway lighting, airspace designation, air traffic control, airport information dissemination, weather reporting, charting requirements, etc., etc. The list goes on and on.

    The goal is NO accidents, NONE! Theoretically, if the regs are good enough and everyone in aviation follows them, there won't be any accidents. When one occurs, they're all over it to determine where the system broke down. If someone broke a rule that's one thing; appropriate correction and punishment will be administered.

    If, on the other hand, the accident occurred because the regulations were inadequate, then the need for another regulation has been uncovered and something will be added to the FARs/CFR to prevent anything similar happening in the future.

    As a result the FARs (Federal Aviation Regulations) have grown like topsy over my 40+ year association with them and become quite oppressive. But there's no arguing that the FAA's approach has made aviation safer.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2012
  7. ateamer

    ateamer NRA4EVR

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    Because a runway overrun is caused by one of two things: A brake failure, or most likely poor skill and bad judgement. If it is a mechanical failure, it's important to know if there are defective parts on the market or if there is a mechanic whose shortcomings are putting lives at risk. More than likely, the pilot was too high on final approach and too fast, which indicates a deficiency in both skill and judgement. The poor judgement is because he failed to recognize that he was not going to land with the available runway length and did not go around. This is basic stuff that a student pilot is consistently doing by the time he solos.

    Pilots are required to follow the Federal Aviation Regulations and one of the FAA's duties is to enforce the FARs. Think about it - do you want pilots up ther who aren't using common sense, who freeze up in an emergency or who just do whatever the hell they want, everyone else be damned? Do you want poorly maintained planes over you town?

    Another major benefit that comes from accident investigation is improved training.
     
  8. ateamer

    ateamer NRA4EVR

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    Oh, and as long as the accident pilot in the OP had valid pilot and medical certificates and had completed the required recurrent training, the FAA will probably sanction him by requiring remedial training and a checkride with a flight examiner.
     
  9. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

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    You say that now, but what would you say if your wife was killed in a commuter plane crash, and you learned the pilot had a history of crashes/damage/poor calls on his record?
     
  10. c6601a

    c6601a

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    Didn't you get the memo? You are not supposed to say anything positive about any government agency or their actions.
     
  11. ray9898

    ray9898

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    LOL....really? We don't tolerate a lot of oopsies in aviation.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2012
  12. c6601a

    c6601a

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    Sorry to point out, but you are showing your ignorance of the subject.

    The pilot, aircraft owner, any rescuer or local "authorities" are allowed to do whatever is needed to save any lives in danger, to remove dead bodies, to protect the wreckage and the area in general and to prevent undue hazard for others.
    I can tell you, based on multiple experiences with the FAA after an accident/incident, that if that is true, there was far more going on than you are aware of. It is more likely that it took the pilot 2 days before he was able to get the equipment/manpower to right the airplane at a cost he liked.
     
  13. larry_minn

    larry_minn Silver Member Millennium Member

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    Nope you are showing YOUR ignorance. I didn't say LIVES were endangered. I said added damage to aircraft. I worked EMS (thankfully never a airline disaster) While we tried to minimize alterations to scene the people were priority.
    The plane I spoke of was in a remote location. It was a private grass strip with a machine shed for hanger. I was there when he was informed NOT to touch aircraft and it would be two days before inspectors could show up.
    I was amazed at how little (visible) damage there was to aircraft. He assured me there would be damage when it was righted.
    He would have liked to flip it that day. Lets say battery (I assume planes use sealed batteries?) is cracked. The leaking acid can do lots of damage in 2 days. Av fuel leaking?
    Once a person knows lift points/stress areas I wouldn't think flipping a plane would be hardest thing in world. They don't weigh much.

    BTW the Pilot knew issue. His fault. He took off into wind, realized hr forgot something, did a 180 and landed with wind. (in a hurry) and the tail came up as he stopped. Actually rather gentle.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2012
  14. MLM

    MLM

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    While I am sure the FAA does a lot of good but when the cause of the accident is obvious why the full-blown investigation? I would imagine, regardless of how big or small, a FAA investigation ain't cheap.
     
  15. airmotive

    airmotive Tin Kicker

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    When a plane hits the ground, the NTSB owns it until they release it. By law, the NTSB must investigate every aircraft accident...it's in their charter. An 'accident' has a very specific definition...>$20,000 damage, loss of life, serious injury, uncontained engine failure, etc,etc...the definition of an accident is in the FARs.

    Often, for minor accidents/incidents, the NTSB will deligate the investigation to the FAA, and the FAA will issue a report of findings back to the NTSB investigator in charge. However, the FAA and NTSB have very different roles...the FAA is concerned only with enforcement (like the police, but for pilots), while the NTSB is purely investigative and has zero enforcement authority (except in extreme circumstances).
    The FAA is looking for regulation violations, while the NTSB is looking for safety violations. (often, the safety violations ARE rule violations).

    There's an old saying: "Every aviation regulation is written in blood." New regs come about after defficiencies are identified from accident investigations. This is why your little single-prop, no-injury accident was investigated...just in case the accident pilot found some new way to crash a plane.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2012
  16. Brian Lee

    Brian Lee Drop those nuts

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    You might be surprised at how little the FAA will spend getting to the bottom of something like this. It's silly to complain about it unless you also feel that people who get into minor car wrecks shouldn't be allowed to seek a police report for insurance purposes. Airplanes have to have insurance too, and reports are required to make a claim. That's about all the "full blown investigation" will amount to. An over shot runway with no injuries just isn't the sort of thing where they're going to spend money to reconstruct the wreckage of a C-172 that got bent without killing anyone.......

    So the OP's complaint is not even slightly realistic.

    It'll take about 5 minutes of talking to the pilot on the phone to decide whether to call it "pilot error" or not, with about a 90 percent chance that pilot error was it, and the investigation will be over at that point. If it turns out that the plane had bad brakes or something, it will still be over almost as fast & cheap. There just isn't usually any big mystery about what caused this sort of accident.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2012
  17. Brian Lee

    Brian Lee Drop those nuts

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    Totally false.

    Actually they often are pretty cheap, especially when there's little chance of any big mystery to solve - like this case. A short phone call to get the pilots story is often the extent of it. You 're allowing your impression of airline accident investigations to create false ideas about how small "non-injury incidents" are handled.
     
  18. kensb2

    kensb2 pistol n00b

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    I'm guessing maybe something else was being full blown, and it's probably tough to judge where the end of the runway is with your eyes closed....:rofl:
     
  19. king_John_I

    king_John_I Glock Armorer

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    A real American would exit the aircraft and discharge your firearm excessively!



    Jk
     
  20. MulletLoad

    MulletLoad

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    The MIB crew gave him this story when they 'blinked' him after he OP witnessed the wreckage of a crashed alien spacecraft. ;)