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Extreme Caution: "50 Freak" - DISHONEST, UNETHICAL

Discussion in 'Smart Shopper' started by sven, Jul 28, 2003.

  1. sven

    sven

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    This posting is to register in public my complaint against user "50 Freak" - real name is Edward, who lives in Northern California. Ed posts under the alias "50 Freak" on various forums including but not limited to: CalGuns.net and TheHighRoad.org, GlockTalk.com and uses the email address JustaBlokeAnywhere@hotmail.com

    Synopsys:

    Ed gave written agreement to sell a gun to me for a stated price, but he then received a higher offer and sold the gun regardless of our deal. His arguments as to his actions all fall short of explaining away this dishonest and unethical action - full documentation is provided below for the record.

    I strongly advise anyone buying or selling anything to avoid doing business with user '50 Freak' at all costs. This is the most negative experience I have had on any firearms forum with any buyer or seller, hands down

    Documentation:

    7/21/2003:

    '50 Freak' replies to a long-running posting on CalGuns.net where I stated I was looking for a Keltec P32 for Private-Party-Transfer inside California. Edward says he has one available and to contact him via email to discuss.

    My post: http://calguns.net/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=888602736&f=7736030741&m=1236083013
    Ed's reply is on the second page.

    Email sent immediately to JustaBlokeAnywhere@hotmail.com - I offered $375:

    Edward countered with $425, terms I accepted:

    I immediately confirmed my interest, and Ed replied:

    "So this is a confirmation of the acceptance of the deal on my part. I'll
    contact the other potential buyer and let them know the P32 is no longer for
    sale."

    Full email quoted below.

    I proceeded to immediately get in touch with my FFL regarding the transfer process, CCing Edward. Edward called me in person to tell me he was knocking $25 off the price as no shipping would be needed. I told him that we would close the deal in the first week of August, and he agreed. I said I was going out of town for the weekend and would return next week.

    7/25/2003:

    The following email was sent to me on Friday the 25th of July, 2003, while I was out of town:

    I returned from travel on the 28th, and replied:


    To which Edward replied:

    Avoid this seller like the plague.
     
  2. 50 Freak

    50 Freak

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  3. hapuna

    hapuna Trusted Member

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    50 Freak,
    You made an offer and it was accepted. Its done you no longer have a gun to sell. If you were concerned you should have gotten a deposit.

    I wouldn't want you to be left holding the bag but you definitely burned Sven and did so after you had a legally binding agreement.

    ON the internet your word is your bond. This proves you can't be trusted. Yeah its easy to do cause you don't know the folks but that actually makes it all the more important. Sven's warning is valid.

    My vote would be that you no longer be a member of GT.;Q
     
  4. Bruz

    Bruz

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    I hate to tell you this, but an offer for $500 came in for the P32, and that... I'm very sorry to back out... I hope you don't think to badly of me.

    I feel very "badly of you", and I have nothing to do with it! You have to be kidding! Your word and your honor is only worth $75. to you? I would not sell out at any price, but for 75 bucks? Shame on you! I am ashamed to be on the same forum as you...

    Thanks Sven for bringing this loser out into the open...if he is allowed to rip you off and still stay on this forum, I appreciate knowing to avoid him.
     
  5. Glock4Life

    Glock4Life

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    ORIGINALLY POSTED BY BRUZ--
    YEP:(
     
  6. Mark L Miller

    Mark L Miller

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    Ed, If these are your words, you broke a legally binding contract
    "So this is a confirmation of the acceptance of the deal on my part. I'll contact the other potential buyer and let them know the P32 is no longer for sale."
    I believe you got the other offer & just decided it was worth it to break the deal with Sven. There is no excuse. You accepted the deal, then you backed out with no good reason.
    I have to jump on the wagon & feel very badly of you also. Shame on you Ed! MLM :(
     
  7. sven

    sven

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  8. 50 Freak

    50 Freak

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  9. Mark L Miller

    Mark L Miller

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    You accepted the offer, you backed out. Who is the bad guy here? I just don't understand why you feel you aren't wrong. Maybe you have justified it in your mind but that doesn't make it right. Can you accept that everyone thinks you are wrong? MLM
     
  10. lomfs24

    lomfs24

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    50Freak, I am shocked. I read the entire thread on "The Highroad". There were some comments I agreed with, some I didn't.

    I don't know how Kali treats a verbal agreement or a written agreement. I will speak for my State of Montana and say that an oral contract is as legally binding as a written one. However, I don't believe you had a contract. You had an agreement. Again, I don't know about Kali but in Montana a sale of personal property is an agreement not a contract and either party can legally back out of the sale up to 30 after said sale.

    Did you or did you not have a contract or did you or did you not do something illegal? That would probably go to court and attorny fees would soak up more than $500 quickly.

    Do I think you are in the right? Absolutely..... Absolutely, NOT!!!

    There is a more important moral issue here. The agreement was to sell a firearm that, apparently, is hard to get or find in Kali. You then you took away that opportunity for Sven to purchase that firearm. You screwed him. Not only is that a moral issue but gun owners should alway present themselves as a morally upright, honest and trustworthy group of people. We should have more of a kinship to each other than what $75 would buy.

    Those who are faithful in little will also be faithful in much. If you can't be trusted in a simple firearm transaction can you really be trusted to even own a firearm. That may seem a little harsh but maybe you could explain to us all where your personal moral line lies. Is it $20? 50? $75? Maybe a little bump and run in a parking lot? Maybe pushing the limits of firearm laws? Maybe cold blooded murder?

    I am not saying you do or would do any of those things. But I think you get my point. As gun owners we should be honest, trustworthy and as morally upright as we can possibly be. And this transaction seems to be a simple choice that you blew.

    Trust is hard to gain and easy to lose. I thank Sven for bringing this to our attention. Do I think that you should be banned. No, perhaps you have learned a lesson from this. I hope you have. But from comments you have posted on other boards I seriously doubt it.

    I think Sven did the right thing with posting the incident and then leaving it alone. 50Freak did a good enough job of digging his own hole.
     
  11. Guest

  12. mt_goodrich

    mt_goodrich

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    You always take a chance when selling something via Internet. Its a given that from time to time, you will get burned, or someone will back out of a deal. I've had it happen to me a few times and didn't like it.

    I had one instance where I agreed to purchase a gun that required a five hour drive on my part. Once finalizing the deal, came across a deal for same exact gun for about $50.00 less and it was local.

    What did I do?

    Took the five hour trip and paid the extra $50.00.

    Why?

    Because I had agreed to the purchase.

    Ended up meeting a very nice board member and feeling good about myself for honoring my word.
     
  13. Bruz

    Bruz

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    Took the five hour trip and paid the extra $50.00.

    Good man mt_goodrich! Very honorable indeed!

    I think the thing that has been bugging me so much is Freak selling out for such a miniscule amount of money, and even trying to justify it like anyone would of done the same thing for that much money...I was not going to post this, but a couple of months ago I sold one of my properties. The buyer and I agreed on the price on the phone and were to get together the next day to sign papers. That evening another buyer that had liked the house called me up and had decided he wanted to buy the house also, for $35,000. more! Real property contracts must be in writing to be inforcible, and I am no Saint, so I did wrestle with myself that evening as what to do. I came to the conclusion that I may have a price at which I might sell out, but the $35,000. was much to low. I must admit I would not like to tempted for a price in the millions, but even with millions I still could not live with myself.
     
  14. NightWolfe

    NightWolfe Grumpy Glocker

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    Let's look at the flip side of this for a second ..

    what if August rolled around and Sven says ya know what .. I can't get the money .. sorry .. I don't think .50 Freak would have posted anything about it, trying to ruin the guys rep .. and he would have really been screwed because someone that offered him $100 more (not $75 .. read it again) would have been gone too ..

    and I'm sorry but $500 today in my hand is ALOT better than maybe $400 in a couple of weeks .. $100 might not be much money to some of you .. but to some of us it still is ..

    He e-mail Sven saying that he was offered more and gave him a chance .. he got no reply so he sold to a higher bidder ..

    I just wanted to shed light on on the other side of this, as this looks quite one sided to me ..

    just my $0.02 though ..
     
  15. hy5z

    hy5z

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    If you had agreed to wait until August to complete the deal then you should have. It's true that protracted deals like these often fall through but if you make an agreement then you should stand by it.

    That being said, I wouldn't hesitate to buy from 50 Freak. He doesn't appear to be anyone that would rip someone off. He has, if faultily, defended his position and has stood his ground. I have no doubt that if this deal would have been completed within a week that things would have gone well and the buyer would have received his Kel-tec as promised.

    The larger issue appears to be:

    Are California gun laws so bad that a Kel-tec p32 sells for $500? Sheesh, I can have my pick at $199 or less. :) :)
     
  16. Hihopoly

    Hihopoly

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    Cheers Bruz. ;c

    $35,000?!! I admit I would have taken the larger offer. The lower bidder should have known that there is no agreement until the papers are signed. Yea, we're talking legalities vs experience - maybe the offeror didn't know verbal agreements on RE are not enforceable but it's not my duty or want to qualify each offeror's legal knowledge. If he doesn't know the rules of the game he shouldn't be playing. Just being honest and like I said I applaud your convictions Bruz.

    (For the record I believe 50 Freak was wrong if his agreements were legally binding in his/Sven's states)
     
  17. loandr.

    loandr.

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    Verbal agreement offered and accepted...plain and simple, you broke the law and it should be persued as such. grow up :- ( cant believe an actual member would conduct himself as such ??? thanks for the heads up on this guys "TRUE" character. Wish I was licensed in Cali. I'd help you persue it, if you decide to contact me, and Ill try and hook you up with an attorney in your area...just as a matter of principal...
     
  18. hapuna

    hapuna Trusted Member

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    NightWolfe,
    I appreciate your efforts here but it appears one sided because its a very clear cut case. There are ways to handle the delay in doing the deal. You could get an immediate deposit of say $50 to hold the deal til August. I don't for a second thing 50Freak intended to rip someone off here I just think he didn't know any better. That wouldn't be so bad but he doesn't appear to have learned anything and that is more worrisome. As Loandr indicated its a pretty open and shut case of a deal being struck. It could go sour(wait it did go sour) and sven is dealing with someone not acting appropriately in an appropriate manner.
     
  19. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man

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    I wonder how many future deals 50 Freak will do with people who backed out on him? I doubt he would agree to do any.

    Why should he be surprized with negative feedback when he does virtually the same thing?
     
  20. Bruz

    Bruz

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    maybe the offeror didn't know verbal agreements on RE are not enforceable but it's not my duty or want to qualify each offeror's legal knowledge.

    Thanks Hihopoly for the cudo, I was trying to keep it short but there is more to the story...I am a Broker, and while it would of been legal to go with the higher offer it would not of been ethical, especially since I am an "expert" and did not tell the first buyer that if another offer came in prior to us signing the contract I could go with the higher offer.

    I hate the term "Karma", etc. but as a past landscaper I learned that what you plant you reap, and often you reap many times more than what you sow. Call it being greedy but I also do the right thing because I receive much more back than I lose. ;)


    50 Freak, surely by now you must see that you errored and are in the wrong...as I'm sure you know this is a great group and I believe that if you admit you were wrong and apologize to Sven this can all be dropped.