[Boats]

While I think we can all agree theu are a product of stupid laws, their performance advantages over PCC's are not really disputable.

In that case, then a 7.62x51 Galil pistol has undeniable advantages over a 5.56 pistol that is awfully heavy just to fire a mere intermediate rifle round. Get yourself a real rifle cartridge.

The Galil even comes with tritium sights for when the power fails at the mall when the ninja battle starts.

The second part of your statement. Well, that's simply unfounded. They have looked many times to see if something better exists. And the answer keeps coming back, not really.

That's an incomplete statement. They've found intriguing replacements for one or both multiple times, but they never find the money or the bureaucratic will to pull the trigger on any of them.

Then again, this is the service that didsdained repeaters for falling block single shots to save money on ammo, fielded the Krag long after the Mauser had demonstrated it was the future back in the 1880s, saddled the revolutionary Garand with .30-06 because it was laying around, and was then force fed the M-16 by the efforts of the Air Force. Not exactly a forward thinking institution.

 

[AK_Stick]

There are certainly advantages to a 7.62 pistol over 5.56, 6.8however, they're not as significant as the advantages of a 5.56, 6.8 or 300/7.62x39 over a 9mm.

 

[AK_Stick]

Also odd that the guy who claims to roll around with 200+ rounds of ammo and a rifle as a daily carry, would even start down the road to hinting at a mall ninja reference.

 

[Boats]

Also odd that the guy who claims to roll around with 200+ rounds of ammo and a rifle as a daily carry, would even start down the road to hinting at a mall ninja reference.

I carry 53 rounds in three mags. My jeep carries the remaining 160. That last bit is regularly taken to the range, expended in practice, and then replaced in the lockbox.

Let's see the holster for your Kel-Tec 5.56 "pistol" or whatever it is you're evangelizing.:2gun:

 

[Boats]

There are certainly advantages to a 7.62 pistol over 5.56, 6.8however, they're not as significant as the advantages of a 5.56, 6.8 or 300/7.62x39 over a 9mm.

More is always MOAR, ain't it?

I guess not when your own version of "good enough" needs defending.

 

[AK_Stick]

More is always MOAR, ain't it?

I guess not when your own version of "good enough" needs defending.

Not really.

SBR's have surpassed "good enough" and have actually entered ideal.

Hence why they've all but killed SMG's

Going past that offers diminishing returns and actual quantifiable disadvantages. Like weight, recoil, and limited ammunition.

Not the mythical or unquantifiable disadvantages like "being quite so they don't attract as much attention unsurpressed" or "not an AR"

7.62x51 also isn't a intermediate cartridge.

 

[AK_Stick]

I carry 53 rounds in three mags. My jeep carries the remaining 160. That last bit is regularly taken to the range, expended in practice, and then replaced in the lockbox.

Let's see the holster for your Kel-Tec 5.56 "pistol" or whatever it is you're evangelizing.:2gun:

Im not the one advocating carry of 200+ rounds on a daily basis. I hardly ever even bother with a spare mag.

 

[Onkel Walther]

Well, I started the thread in Survival Forum, because I'm a bit worried about things are going on in Germany (explosion of crime rate since 2015 and look to Hamburg at this very moment).

There are pros and cons, but last weekend I got the opportunity to shoot a 9mm Beretta Cx4 and wow... it's so handy, I loved it.

On the other hand, if I would being shot at close distance and I could choose (of course I don't wanna get shot) I would prefer a 9mm or .40 rather than a .223 :supergrin:

 

[Boats]

Im not the one advocating carry of 200+ rounds on a daily basis. I hardly ever even bother with a spare mag.

I don't advocate anything I do as being THE thing to do. I hit the range after work every other day. I guess I could go home first and grab the carbine and my ungodly amount of 9mm to give you the warm fuzzies.

Be a sport. Is your 5.56 "pistol" an appendix carried piece?

 

[Boats]

"7.62x51 also isn't a intermediate cartridge."

I know that. The point was you're already carrying all the weight and format ridiculousness of a 7.62x51 "pistol" which fires a balls out rifle round merely to shoot the compromised intermediate rounds of 5.56 out of yours.

 

[ranger1968]

This is straight up fake news.

If you've got some weird half AR half PCC frankengun then you may have experienced some failures.

A purpose-built PCC you SHOULD be buying, like the Beretta CX4 Storm, is 100% reliable. I've shot thousands of rounds out of mine never one single failure, despite using some sketchy ammo at times.

Heck, even the bargain-basement Hi-Point 995 runs like a Swiss watch, on any ammo you want to feed it.....

 

[Boats]

Well, I started the thread in Survival Forum, because I'm a bit worried about things are going on in Germany (explosion of crime rate since 2015 and look to Hamburg at this very moment).

There are pros and cons, but last weekend I got the opportunity to shoot a 9mm Beretta Cx4 and wow... it's so handy, I loved it.

On the other hand, if I would being shot at close distance and I could choose (of course I don't wanna get shot) I would prefer a 9mm or .40 rather than a .223 :supergrin:

It should be obvious to you by now that 5.56 solves every man portable firearm problem—except when it doesn't.

Let's never you mind that the US Army has become somewhat disenchanted about the round.

Surely, an AR pistol is legal to own or carry in Germany, no? It's the one true sword or you or your country are just wrongheaded about it.

 

[AK_Stick]

"7.62x51 also isn't a intermediate cartridge."

I know that. The point was you're already carrying all the weight and format ridiculousness of a 7.62x51 "pistol" which fires a balls out rifle round merely to shoot the compromised intermediate rounds of 5.56 out of yours.

So, the weight isn't an issue, if its in the form of a PCC, but suddenly its an issue if its in a caliber that performs better than a pistol?

Your making a very poor argument.

 

[AK_Stick]

I don't advocate anything I do as being THE thing to do. I hit the range after work every other day. I guess I could go home first and grab the carbine and my ungodly amount of 9mm to give you the warm fuzzies.

Be a sport. Is your 5.56 "pistol" an appendix carried piece?

I don't carry an AR pistol, I carry a pistol. and if I need more, I step up to a rifle.

Because even a short rifle, outperforms a longer PCC.

 

[JFrame]

Well, I started the thread in Survival Forum, because I'm a bit worried about things are going on in Germany (explosion of crime rate since 2015 and look to Hamburg at this very moment).

There are pros and cons, but last weekend I got the opportunity to shoot a 9mm Beretta Cx4 and wow... it's so handy, I loved it.

On the other hand, if I would being shot at close distance and I could choose (of course I don't wanna get shot) I would prefer a 9mm or .40 rather than a .223 :supergrin:

I have the AR status covered -- but the CX4 keeps popping up for me as a want-to-have.

I also have a PX4, so I'd have the spare magazines thing covered...

Hmmm...

.

 

[AK_Stick]

They're certainly fun, I like mine. Though I have it converted to use M9 mags

 

[AK_Stick]

For reference though

This is my smallest SBR with a 30 round mag, in a regular book bag.

 

[pgg00]

My smallest SBR. I can conceal it under my jacket with a 20 round mag while it is slung under my shoulder

 

[FLIPPER 348]

It's a fallacy that a pistol is somehow less dangerous re: over penetration compared to a 5.56.

The fallacy is actually the round that goes thru cars is defeated by drywall

 

[TheDreadnought]

Not really.

SBR's have surpassed "good enough" and have actually entered ideal.

Hence why they've all but killed SMG's

Going past that offers diminishing returns and actual quantifiable disadvantages. Like weight, recoil, and limited ammunition.

Not the mythical or unquantifiable disadvantages like "being quite so they don't attract as much attention unsurpressed" or "not an AR"

7.62x51 also isn't a intermediate cartridge.

Your arguments are fallacious and filled with "alternative facts."

Advantages of PCCs have been pointed out to you, and your response is simply to state that they aren't advantages.

A. There are no listed advantages there.

We are simply stating that there are situations where a PCC is a great option. By arguing that point, you are stating that a .223/5.56 rifle is the superior tool in ALL SITUATIONS. Which is flat out false.

Hence why they've all but killed SMG's.

Except they haven't been. Only here in the States have SMGs declined in popularity, for reasons that have already been explained, and which have nothing to do with your theory that the 5.56 rifle is better in all situations.

I wish this guard outside Buckingham Palace knew that:

1. His MP7 doesn't exist because some guy on Glocktalk asserted that nobody uses SMGs anymore.

2. Even if it did exist its worthless in a defensive situation.

3. It's small, compact nature is not an advantage in drawing less attention to itself in a touristy area than a full-sized battle rifle or bulky, awkward battle-rifle-pistol.