Ex Cop says hydrostatic shock can kill you

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by SuddenImpact, Nov 14, 2015.

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  1. SuddenImpact

    SuddenImpact

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    I was reading an interesting article where an Ex LAPD officer says hydrostatic shock can hit you if you take a central body hit. HIs exact quote is below.

    "If you get a central hit in the chest by a modern .40 S&W from a Glock the bad guys are now carrying, the hydrostatic shock will kill you, and pretty much on the spot. - See more at: http://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/2012/02/19/street-survival/#sthash.tx29SJfw.dpuf

    Two things that make you think
    1. He said if you get hit by a .40 , not a .45 or 9mm.
    2. He says high velocity projectile

    Definitely causes one to think that perhaps people believe handguns are poor man stoppers because most 9mm and .45 rounds don't reach the velocities needed for hydrostatic shock. I said "most rounds", I am aware of the 9bple and ranger +p+ , however even those rounds can't reach 500-600 foot pounds force from muzzle with silver tips and underwood rounds.
    Well ayoob did say people did exhibit signs of hydrostatic shock when hit with the 9bple, displayed in cases of brain bleeding from the impact etc.

    Well, I forgot there is the .45 pac Winchester Ranger talon +p with 500lbs of force from muzzle as well. I wonder if those rounds are causing hydrostatic chock from center body hits as well. Food for thought from a Veteran LAPD cop thats been there, hydrostatic shock is not a myth…..definitely food for thought. I'm more inclined to believe what he is saying than those who constantly tell me its a "myth".
     
  2. eb07

    eb07 Sharkin'

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    Yet the military and law enforcement pay people to study this both in real life shootings and in testing and they say different....

    Food for thought
     
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  3. SuddenImpact

    SuddenImpact

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    Normally I would say that your observation puts the case to rest. However, the government doesn't instill 100% confidence in me when it comes to displaying consistent levels of competency in researching data and implementing policies based on that research.
     
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  4. ronin.45

    ronin.45

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    Hydrostatic shock with any normal handgun round is minimal.
    If velocity is what you want, the .40 is nothing special. .357Sig or 10mm would be much better.
     
  5. eb07

    eb07 Sharkin'

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    Yet the word of one ex government employee has you convinced. Interesting.
     
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  6. SterlingArcher

    SterlingArcher

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    Drama queen...

    This idiot is all over the place.
     
  7. Mayonator

    Mayonator

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    That hydrostatic shock "theory" was more anecdotal than anything, from what I understand. But a lot of people were convinced of it, and it sounds like the cop-turned-physician still is. I ignored his bravado (he's an ass of course) but I found most of what he said to be worthwhile reading. There's some sensible advice in there.

    I wouldn't read too much into it about shock waves from handgun bullets though. It's just one line he put in there, probably because he thought it sounded cool.
     
  8. ChiefWPD

    ChiefWPD

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  9. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    The guy made a generalization. My 124+P Gold Dots are just fine.
     
  10. DonGlock26

    DonGlock26

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    If this is true (it isn't), then how do soldiers and Marines survive rifle and machine-gun fire hits
    to the central body, since handgun projectiles have much less kinetic energy?
     
  11. Brian Lee

    Brian Lee Drop those nuts

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    "an Ex LAPD officer says"

    I really can't figure out why people are so quick to assume that cops and anyone who's been in the army is a gun expert above most other people. My experiences with the people I meet at the range tells me that's BS.

    My guess is that an ex LA cop stands about a 50-50 chance of being a guy who never fired a gun in his life prior to enrolling in a police academy, and due to lack of total experience, (What P.D. actually buys enough practice ammo for it's guys?) probably doesn't know nearly as much about what kills things as does Goober from Alabama, who's been hunting deer since he was 8.
     
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  12. Railsplitter

    Railsplitter

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    This is part of the misunderstanding about hydrostatic shock, that is it's shock and shock in and of itself without any another sort of damage with it will not usually kill someone. Being hit with a rifle bullet will produce shock and will to a degree cause an instant injury to nerve and muscle around the area hit causing a wounding effect that compounds the actual physical harm. The physical harm such as bleeding, organ damage or infection will cause death eventually but shock happens instantly. This may not be a big deal on the battle field where you have hundreds of solders there to take you out of the battle to get treated but alone in a gun fight on the street the effects of hydrostatic shock can contribute to a lessening ability to effectively fight back in a situation where you don't have help. Handgun calibers with good velocity such as the 357 Sig, 357 Magnum and 10mm produce a certain amount of shock, the only real debate is how much wounding effect it has on the human body and regrettably there is no clear answer. But what is known is that all three are very effective fight stoppers and there is no debate about that!
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2015
  13. fortyofforty

    fortyofforty

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    As is the .45 ACP. It's a highly effective fight stopper, despite its relatively low velocity, and there is no debate about that. As with any fight stopping theory, each shooting is distinct and it is only by evaluating dozens or hundreds of examples can we draw valid conclusions. Regrettably, such public data collection hasn't happened since Marshall & Sanow.
     
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  14. Solideogloria

    Solideogloria

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    Yup

    https://www.policeone.com/police-he...ne-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/

    Geschickt, nicht gesendet mit Tapatalk
     
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  15. ronin.45

    ronin.45

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    Guys, we are paying too much attention to the wrong part of the story. This ex-cop is warning us about Glocks. He specifically says "40S&W from a Glock". We need to get the Glocks away from the bad guys. Problem solved.


    Sounds like a typical non-gun guy who uses "Glocks" as a generic term for handgun. He probably knows as much about ballistics and wound trauma as Dianne Feinstein.
     
  16. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Why people want to believe anything about guns or terminal perf from a Leo is just laughable. The avg Leo barely knows how is personal gun functions, much less anything about term ballistics. His statement is terribly flawed as soon as he says a 9m Or even 45 don't generate enough vel. A 40/180 @ 1000 or 45/230 @ 900 of 9/124 @ 1100, all pretty much the same. So right there, tells me he's full of poo. I doubt that the vast majority of Leo have ever shot anything living & then done or attended an autopsy after.
    I won't discount temp cavitation, it just isn't repeatably measurable in living targets. So it may or may not do enough add'l damage to be effective. Why we like jhp vs fmj, it cause a greater perm & temp wound & together, more tissue damage, so you get a better term perf.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2015
  17. unit1069

    unit1069

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    Even the Courtneys have written that a possible ballistic wave from a handgun caliber round is the LAST thing anyone should take into consideration when choosing a self-defense load.
     
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  18. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Exactly. Could it happen? Sure, people win the lottery & get struck by lightening too, crap does happen.
     
  19. Wishoot

    Wishoot

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    Being a cop does not instantly make you an expert at ballistics or the physiological mechanics of bullet wounds.
     
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  20. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Or even tactics & weapon skill. Btw, this goes for the vast majority of civ ccw types too. Far too many prof & ametures are carrying guns & know little of nothing about the tool or its use.
     
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