Everything you know about the civil war is wrong.

Discussion in 'Political Issues' started by inthefrey, Sep 9, 2019.

  1. inthefrey

    inthefrey Moved on...

    Messages:
    8,379
    Likes Received:
    5,092
    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Location:
    Western Pennsylvania
  2. W420Hunter

    W420Hunter

    Messages:
    3,586
    Likes Received:
    237
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Location:
    Ohio
    It's funny because The Simpsons makes fun of this in an episode when Apu was taking a citizen test. He was asked about why caused the civil war and he started going into the social economic reasons and the man giving the test told him to just say slavery. Now if you want to talk about something that is not even talked about in this link. The first person to die in the name of the war was actually a freed black man. An abolitionist by the name of John Brown was trying to instigate and armed insurrection to end the slave trade. He did so by raiding plantations to build an army. It accumulated when he tried to take a train station after raiding a federal armory. The night worker a freed slave was shot and killed by the abolitionists when he attempted to raise the alarm to their take over.
     
    NJ1911, GSX42, Atomic Punk and 6 others like this.

  3. PlayerOne

    PlayerOne

    Messages:
    443
    Likes Received:
    679
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2017
    No ****. Comparing across places and time? Why not compare how blacks were treated in the South and the North, pre-civil war, and how blacks were treated in the South and the North, post-civil war?
     
    G-nineteen likes this.
  4. F14A

    F14A

    Messages:
    7,773
    Likes Received:
    17,747
    Joined:
    May 8, 2016
    Lincoln using "slavery" as an excuse to War was a brillant move that very few would argue against.

    As always I maintain this War was about Federal power over all of the State's..

    Study it thoroughly... At anyrate, it's long since been decided..
     
  5. happyguy

    happyguy Man, I'm Pretty

    Messages:
    27,875
    Likes Received:
    27,853
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2003
    Location:
    You can't get here from there!
    Pretty much what my father, who dropped out of school in the sixth grade to go to work and feed the family, was telling me fifty years ago.

    Regards,
    Happyguy :)
     
    Ramjet38, kwo, pjanthony and 5 others like this.
  6. hogship

    hogship A republic, if you can keep it! Silver Member

    Messages:
    15,940
    Likes Received:
    11,440
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2004
    Location:
    In my shop
    I believe you are correct......federal power was probably the #1 reason, but you'd have to ignore a big part of the outcome to not recognize that slavery was a significant part of the purpose for many non-politically motivated in those times.

    If you take Lincoln's words given for public consumtion, he wrote for the purposes of political interests, and what he thought and did in private may not completely coincide with the "public Lincoln". Those who lived those times are long gone now, and it's pretty easy to suggest just about anything one wants to believe, without anyone who were there to speak up.

    Politicians are what they've always been, and few leave behind their true inner thoughts. Without the introduction of their private thoughts being a part of their eternal "message", it's hard to sum up their true motivations why they did what they did. I have read some of these statements by Lincoln in the past, and it's difficult to separate his public message from his private beliefs. From what we do know, it's understood that he was sympathetic to the abolitionist cause......and, how much that played on the private Lincoln as opposed to the public Lincoln is a mystery.
     
    SabbathBlack, paynter2 and F14A like this.
  7. P99er

    P99er MGTOW??

    Messages:
    4,244
    Likes Received:
    5,372
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2001
    Location:
    My own little world
    I never thought the CW was fought over slavery. Especially considering Lincoln's letter to Horace Greeley and the fact that 4 Union states had ratified the Corwin Amendment to the Constitution to protect slavery.

    But I will say, ending slavery would have been the absolute BEST reason for that war.

    ETA: And since Lincoln was a Republican, he may have been just the type to say one thing, and do another.
     
  8. JArthurD

    JArthurD Silver Member

    Messages:
    4,847
    Likes Received:
    13,425
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2017
    Location:
    Manassas, Va
    I've said it here before; 90% of the Confederate Army never even saw or met a black slave before the war. U.S. Grant however, owned a great deal of slaves before and after the war while the only slaves R.E. Lee owned were the few that his wife inherited from her father (who were set free). The war was about states rights and federal tyranny. -Any way you slice it. Slavery merely gave the war a human face to what was already inevitable. Every war needs a human face. Politicians are weened on that fact.
     
  9. F14A

    F14A

    Messages:
    7,773
    Likes Received:
    17,747
    Joined:
    May 8, 2016
    Yes. It certainly became the face of the War. The outcome is well known. (Or should be) Even General Longstreet in his Memoir writes of the South's failure to free the slaves BEFORE the War.

    There are Soldiers and Politicians. It has become abundantly clear to me that the southern soldiers were truly against the institution of slavery..

    It's a fascinating study.
     
  10. Deltic

    Deltic

    Messages:
    8,007
    Likes Received:
    10,879
    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    ...

    If you had said 90% didn't own any slaves I could believe it. The Idea that they never saw or met any slaves is ridiculous. The war had more than one cause but slavery was a big one.
     
    R.B. Riddick, tuica and hogship like this.
  11. elkhart

    elkhart

    Messages:
    1,158
    Likes Received:
    1,704
    Joined:
    May 13, 2011
    I think there were a lot of reasons for starting the Civil War- moral, political, social, economic. But as the war progressed, people had to ask what are we fighting for? Why this slaughter? In your mind, you better have a damn good reason. Slavery is a very good reason, and that's the battle cry that congealed for the north. The southern people had federal troops marching through their homelands, their call to arms was northern aggression.

    As far as the powershift from the states to the federal government, well, tyranny is an opportunist.

    Just my dumb opinion!
     
  12. 'Ol Grandad

    'Ol Grandad Director of civil unrest

    Messages:
    4,268
    Likes Received:
    7,662
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2017
    Location:
    Edge of sanity
    Heretic!! Lol! This is good. I've known this for years. It's always about the money. Slavery was what WOMDs were prior to our invasion of Iraq. Gotta sell the war you know!
    I like it when taboo subjects finally get to see the light of day. I'm waiting for the big one to bust open! It'll be fun!
     
    Ramjet38, Just_plinking, F14A and 3 others like this.
  13. naughtymoose

    naughtymoose

    Messages:
    1,192
    Likes Received:
    771
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Location:
    America
    Lincoln was a prime example of expanding federal power to get what he wanted. He over stepped the constitution and allowed unchecked abuse of power to take place in an effort to destroy slavery. Economics and expanding government power were driving forces.
     
    plp, Intolerant, Just Glocks and 4 others like this.
  14. P99er

    P99er MGTOW??

    Messages:
    4,244
    Likes Received:
    5,372
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2001
    Location:
    My own little world
    It's interesting that the war was unpopular in the north, and as it was growing in unpopularity, slavery was brought into the conversation.
     
  15. as400guy1

    as400guy1

    Messages:
    7,967
    Likes Received:
    7,396
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    These threads always deliver...
    Just waiting for someone to post that slavery was justified due to economics, morality, and the fact that there were racists in the north.
     
    IvanVic, clancy and R*E like this.
  16. R*E

    R*E

    Messages:
    1,610
    Likes Received:
    1,318
    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Revisionist history always comes out in these threads.
     
    plp, IvanVic, tuica and 1 other person like this.
  17. hogfish

    hogfish Señor Member

    Messages:
    7,552
    Likes Received:
    2,187
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    Location:
    fl
    Was 'the end' of Slavery an outcome?
     
    IvanVic, sas-G19 and hogship like this.
  18. rj1939

    rj1939

    Messages:
    8,579
    Likes Received:
    10,329
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2008
    Location:
    The old Haney place
    The authors of history books, like simple narratives.
     
  19. GlockPride

    GlockPride M&P

    Messages:
    5,266
    Likes Received:
    1,703
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Location:
    Just OK
    Pretty sure we could have ended slavery without a war. But it was a great way to ensure the feds get to operate more freely and destroy states rights.

    All hail the might federal leaders, or be crushed was the message. The question is: did the states receive the memo?
     
  20. RichardB

    RichardB Matthew 25:31-46

    Messages:
    2,705
    Likes Received:
    966
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2007
    Location:
    NC
    The Confederate States were created because they feared the northern state's and the new president Lincoln would end slavery just like the British did in 1835. The documents of succession for each states are on line for you to read if you need further information. Also there are newspaper editorials and politicians speeches still around. Anything written after 1865 from both sides is suspect.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk