Empty brass weight - Win 30-06 cartridge

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Buckeye Glocks, Feb 7, 2010.

  1. Buckeye Glocks

    Buckeye Glocks

    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2007
    I acquired some reloaded 30-06 ammo from my dad. The only thing marked on the box is 57.3 grs of 4350. This stuff is over 25 years old and he does not remember who loaded it for him.

    When I looked up this powder for 30-06 that was a max load for a
    150 gr JSP.

    I don't want to pull the bullet so I wieghed the cartridge. It has a total weight of 400 grs.

    If I knew the weight of an empty Winchester 30-06 cartridge then I would know the bullet weight and I could determine if that was a safe load for the gun.

    Have any of you used 57.3 grs of 4350 in a 30-06? I am assuming it is IMR because of the age.

    Thanks for any help.
     
  2. Patrick Graham

    Patrick Graham Footlong Jr.

    Messages:
    1,953
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2001
    Location:
    Kokomo Indiana
    30-06 Winchester Brass with a spent primer = 192.5 grains on my new RCBS 5-0-5 Balance Beam scale.
     

  3. Brass Nazi

    Brass Nazi NO BRASS FOR U!

    Messages:
    1,956
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2005
    Brass weight varies too much for you to make an accurate determination of the powder charge.
     
  4. Buckeye Glocks

    Buckeye Glocks

    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2007
    Thanks - That would be 57.3 plus 192.5 = 249.8
    That appears to be a 150 gr bullet.

    Is 57.3 grs of 4350 a safe load for that? My Lyman book shows a max load of 57 grs.

    Thanks
     
  5. dudel

    dudel

    Messages:
    14,193
    Likes Received:
    18,463
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    Location:
    Texas Hill Country
    Toss em or pull em to save the components.

    You have no idea the qualifications of the person who loaded them, or what the purpose was.
     
  6. varget

    varget

    Messages:
    1,058
    Likes Received:
    1,660
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2006
    Location:
    Texas
    Just go ahead and use them. .3 of a grain is a VERY SMALL % when it comes to 57 gr. total. The other thing to remember is that manufacturers have become "lawyer aware" in the last years and thus have scaled back perfectly safe load levels to cover their corporate butts. This includes powder manufacturers!
     
  7. fredj338

    fredj338

    Messages:
    30,223
    Likes Received:
    8,650
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    so.cal.
    As previously stated, you CAN NOT determine powder charge by weighing a loaded round. A large case like that could vary as much as 5gr! Which 4350, IMR or Hogdon? Yes it makes a diff. I would probably pull the rounds down & salvage the bullets/primed brass, dump the powder & start over.:dunno: I'm not risking blowing up a gun for $2 worth of powder.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2010
  8. Patrick Graham

    Patrick Graham Footlong Jr.

    Messages:
    1,953
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2001
    Location:
    Kokomo Indiana
    It could be 57.3 grs of bullseye for all we know.

    Use a collet puller and you should be able to re-use the bullets.
     
  9. jmorris

    jmorris

    Messages:
    2,753
    Likes Received:
    1,272
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    You need to pull a bullet to verify as brass is all over the place. You don't need a collet puller though just put a foam ear plug in the bottom of a hammer type so the bullet doesn't get dinged up.
     
  10. gwalchmai

    gwalchmai Lucky Member

    Messages:
    30,496
    Likes Received:
    11,460
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Location:
    Outside the perimeter
    NEVER use someone else's reloads, but especially if you don't know who loaded them. Pull 'em all and reuse the components. Use the powder for fertilizer or WTF.
     
  11. Palouse

    Palouse The Resistance Lifetime Member

    Messages:
    4,058
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Location:
    Washington State
    Sorry...thought I was posting a new thread and didn't realize that I'd just hit "post reply." Stupid move for the day...glad that's out of the way.
     
  12. Buckeye Glocks

    Buckeye Glocks

    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2007
    Thanks for the replys that READ the original post.

    Known - powder and weight IMR 4350 - it was written on the box. 57.3 gr
    Known - the type of brass - weight given by previous poster 192.5 gr
    Known - total weight of cartridge - 400 gr
    Unknown - weight of bullet.
    Unknown - weight of primer.

    When I add the first two I get 249.8 gr.
    Subtract that from 400 g and you get 150.2 gr. for the bullet weight.

    I am 99% sure that the bullet is 150 grains.

    If there is someone out there who has a differnet way of doing math to figure this out, let me know.

    That is all I needed to know.
    Period.

    I got this ammo from my dad. I did not buy it from some random numbskull at the gun show who threw it in with a deal on a rifle. I have shot other reloads that he had in his other rifles with no problems. All the reloads were done by the same person but his memory gets a little fuzzy, especially when you are 77 years old.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2010
  13. fredj338

    fredj338

    Messages:
    30,223
    Likes Received:
    8,650
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    so.cal.
    Look, take the advice as it is given, do with it as you want, but your original post says;
    SO if you are assuming, we are also assuming & trying to answer your quesiton accordingly. I love it when someone comes to a forum, asks advice & then rags on everyone that doesn't give him an answer he likes. Look, unless you are talking about 100rds, Pulling them & starting over is THE ONLY way to KNOW what is in a reload, regardless of who loaded it unless it was you.:dunno:
    Math has nothing to do with it either. You seem to want to ignore what others are telling you. The brass can vary as much as 5gr, a bullet as much as 1/2gr. Is the charge truly 57.5gr or 57gr? Lots of variables.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2010
  14. gwalchmai

    gwalchmai Lucky Member

    Messages:
    30,496
    Likes Received:
    11,460
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Location:
    Outside the perimeter
    Can't argue with that. Happy shootin'! :whistling:
     
  15. Buckeye Glocks

    Buckeye Glocks

    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2007
    It is amazing the answers you get when you are looking for the wieght of a piece of brass.

    I am trying to be as safe as possible with my ammo and weapons. That is why I came here to ask a question. It is not worth injuring myself or damaging my incredibly nice 30-06. I legitimately wanted some information. I came here because it appeared that people give pretty good advice. I also did not just sign up to get an answer and disregard it, nor did I come here to flame anybody.

    I can make my own judgements about what is an appropriate action based on quantifiable information - without condescending lectures. For all any of you knew I could have decided to throw out those 20 rounds, pulled them and reloaded them or shoved them up my @$$. Some of you acted as though I was going to come to your house and shoot them out of your weapon. I am not even going to be shooting them on the range next to you!

    I promise not to ask stupid questions in the future and will only ask preapproved questions so I don't rile the natives.

    So to whom do I address these questions before I post again?
     
  16. byf43

    byf43 NRA Patron Life Member

    Messages:
    12,697
    Likes Received:
    1,799
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Location:
    Southern Maryland
    Buckeye,

    I just read this thread.

    Hold on a minute!
    Every person that recommended to NOT use the ammo has ONE thing in mind, here.

    YOUR SAFETY!!!!!!!

    As others have said, it is difficult, to almost impossible to GUESS what a cartridge case weighs, due to manufacturing processes and the raw material used.

    Your comments are way uncalled for, when the guys that responded to your question were being truthful.

    As for me. . . I shoot NO-ONE'S reloads, but my own.
    My rifle/pistol/shotgun, plus my eyesight and even my life are worth too darned much.

    As for the future, what is the old adage about 'burning bridges'????
    These fine folks here in the reloading room may not be as willing to help.

    Thanks for reading.
     
  17. gwalchmai

    gwalchmai Lucky Member

    Messages:
    30,496
    Likes Received:
    11,460
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Location:
    Outside the perimeter
    Would you have been happy if we had answered your question either yes or no? I think not. You wanted to know if we'd used 57.3gr of IMR 4350 in a .30-06 or not. But that wouldn't help, because you didn't ask the bullet weight. Maybe 57.3gr of IMR is OK under a 90gr FMJ bullet, but not under a 220gr lead boolit. We tried to help you and you got mad, when you really had no cause to. The best advice, which we've learned through experience, is to disassemble the rounds and use the components which are safe to use.
     
  18. Buckeye Glocks

    Buckeye Glocks

    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2007
    Patrick Graham - Thanks for the answer to the original question on empty case weight. That was a very quick response!

    Varget - thanks for the response to using 57.3 grains of 4350 in 30-06.

    Thanks GLOCKtalk for your interest in my safety.

    So, who wants a nice box of 25 year old reloaded 30-06 ammo that nobody knows anything about after reading this thread?
     
  19. Zombie Steve

    Zombie Steve Decap Pin Killa

    Messages:
    18,083
    Likes Received:
    27
    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Location:
    Old Colorado City
    If the natives are restless, it's because you don't know what you think you know (kinda like asking if you understand what understand means), and that has the potential to be dangerous.

    Apparently not what you want to hear, but I'd pull them to be safe. Good luck.
     
  20. jmorris

    jmorris

    Messages:
    2,753
    Likes Received:
    1,272
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    you only know that once you pull the bullet.