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Ejection issue answered

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by tigman250, Aug 2, 2012.

  1. tigman250

    tigman250

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    Ok, here we go, I have a gen 3 G34 that originally had the brass to forehead syndrome, called Glock and complained they said to send it in (which I did) and it came back with the gen 4 ejector, paperwork said tested and performed to spec. I rushed outside to shoot my "fixed" 34. Glock for the most part fixed the BTF (brass to forehead) but it was still spitting brass all over, forward (some would fall in the cutout in the front of the slide) LEFT and a high percentage would still fall ON my arms.

    Some may find this acceptable but I did not, tried all the internet fixes out there, spent a fortune on new extractors and ejectors and ran over 900 rounds through the gun testing various fixes none of which worked to my satisfaction. I then started examining my other semi auto pistols and how they extracted and ejected spent rounds, the one that I wanted to mimic was my LC9, that little guy sends brass into the next zip code! One HUGE difference I noticed between the LC and the 34 was the grip the LC had on the brass, even when pulling the brass out by hand you have to get it angled allot before the "slide side" would let go, I noticed the slide on the LC had allot "grippier" feel when dragging the brass across it.

    This got me thinking, maybe that sexy new coating Glock is putting on is too slippery and is not holding brass as good as the LC or the older Glocks for that matter. First thing I did was ordered the White Sound Defense extractor spring and the non LCI spring loaded bearing, thought if I put a little extra force on the empty that would help to hold the round nice and firm. This made little to no difference, in fact I noticed that day while testing that with the mag out the empty would fall right out the grip! This led me to believe the gun still was not doing a good job of holding the spent brass...... it couldn't even make it to the ejector! After more thought I decided to scrape away the coating on the side of the slide opposite the extractor, I knew this would void the warranty but figured what the heck, he warranty hasn't done me any good so far so I proceeded to remove some of the coating, low and behold it made a difference, didn't fix it but it made a bigger difference than new extractors, ejectors, RSA's, ect. did, so I decided to continue. Thought if I can make it just a bit more rough that it may get better yet, so I took a pneumatic pencil engraver and roughed the surfaces on the extractor and on the slide that the brass came in contact with.......guess what, it's fixed. I have put roughly 300 rounds through it since I have done this mod and have had ZERO go front left or straight back, I have had a couple brush my arm but it's less than 5 out of the 300 rounds. The single thing that has me convinced that this is the fix is now the gun ejects the same with the mag in or out.

    I have intentionally not posted this info just because I wanted to get enough rounds through the gun to be satisfied that it's going to continue to work and I can say that I am indeed content. I want to try the 336 ejector yet, I think because the brass contact is farther left the gun will now spit brass at a flatter angle and completly clean up the few that are brushing my arm. I have a friend coming over tonight to shoot and he has the 336 in his gun (I had a few extras but with all the experimenting I have done with them they no longer have the factory geometry) I plan to swap out the ejectors to see what diffrence it makes. The gun is now 100% back to stock, just roughed up the 2 surfaces:supergrin:

    OK let me have it:whistling:
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
  2. troysglock

    troysglock Member

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    I have wondered if that would help. Interesting to see if anyone can get the same result with sandpapering.
     

  3. WheelGunFan

    WheelGunFan

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    Do you have pictures of your fix?
     
  4. Tombo 65

    Tombo 65

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    This makes a lot of sense. My Gen3 G21 SF had flawless ejection with 45acp ammo, but when I put in a 10mm conversion barrel the ejection became a problem. I put in a modified extractor, but I couldn't get 10mm casings to experience the same "mauser-like" grip that both the stock and modified extractors had on 45acp brass. The 10mm casings could slide out the bottom of the extractor claw grip while the 45acp casings were held in a near death-grip. I got 10mm casings to the face and hands, but 45acp casings flew seven feet East SouthEast of POA.

    Sounds like someone should try taping off and bead-blasting the area in question.

    Nice job on analyzing the problem, by the way.
     
  5. di11igaf

    di11igaf ibew

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    It's funny you said that, I just got my 19 back from glock for ejection issues, mostly for left/forward ejection along with 6:00 ejection. It had a dip extractor before I sent it in, very smooth finish.
    First thing I noticed when I got it back, has a non-dip extractor, still has 336 ejector- but the finish on the extractor they put in is without a doubt rougher, and from what I remember it looks like the angles on the new extractor are a lot sharper than before. Have not shot it yet to test, but will on next few days.
    Also, ive said on here many times before, the only ammo my gun ejects properly is steel cased ammo. I've always assumed its because the steel is a lot tackier than brass, seems the extractor/ejector contact on the steel rather than brass let it eject like it should.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
  6. SJ 40

    SJ 40 Deplorable,Clinger

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    Dilligaf
    The other difference however slight is a steel case tends to hold slightly longer time in the chamber over brass cases. Changing slide speed however slight that may be.
    Not that that is what you are noticing ,it may well be as you suspect the extractor getting a better bite/hold of your fired cases. SJ 40
     
  7. di11igaf

    di11igaf ibew

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    Makes sense, good info.
    Just talked to glock to specifically ask what they did since the work order than was sent to me just said test fired ok, within spec...whatever whatever..
    He looked it up and they replaced recoil spring, trigger bar, slide stop spring, extractor(non-dip, didn't remove to look at # on post) ejector(still a 336)
     
  8. tigman250

    tigman250

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    yes, no matter what angle or lighting I tried I couldn't get a decent pic of the slide, this was the best out of probably 15 pics....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I'm hoping someone else gets inspired to try this fix, I am quite certain this has been the problem all along. Someone said earlier they were wondering if simply sanding the surface would work, the answer is no, I filed the surface to get rid of the coating and I left as many lateral scratches in the slide as possible, it definatly helped, but it was obvious after I used the engraver that it was MUCH better than just with the coating removed and surface slightly roughed up. I honestly think a carbide scribe would do a good enough job of leaving sharp enough lines on the slide to do the trick, honestly I wish I would have thought about that before I went with the engraving pen. When I do this again I will also start just roughing the slide and not the extractor, I'm sure if I can just keep the shell from coming off the bottom of the slide during it's cycle the problem is solved. Like I said earlier I am 100% convinced this is the fix, mainly because the gun now ejects the brass even with the magazine removed, meaning it is now hanging on to the brass and the ejector can now do it's job....... rather than relying on something random under the slide to dislodge the round whenever it drops free......
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
  9. glockenturm

    glockenturm

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    Excellent, outstanding work!

    Glock uses aluminum cased ammo for testing. I wonder if people that are having problems with brass and send it in to Glock are being told there is no problem because the aluminum cases are rougher.

    When I get home, I'll take pictures of the inside of the slide of my non-problem gen3 19 and post them.

    Message sent from Texas!
     
  10. JBS

    JBS

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    Just me or did you post thumbnail photos?
     
  11. SJ 40

    SJ 40 Deplorable,Clinger

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    You may not be the only one as I can't enlarge to see detail either. SJ 40
     
  12. Beretta92guy

    Beretta92guy

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    Excellent work......good write up......hope this really works!!!!!!!!
     
  13. frostyicy

    frostyicy

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    So check this out I stumbled upon this guy at the gun range who is a glock armorer I had no idea (he hadn't been certified in about 3 years but still). Anyway he had a load of glock parts and he happened to have a non-dipped, non lci extractor. He replaced it for me.

    Of 50 rounds ONLY 2 to the head (possibly due to me limpwristing from excitement), others were hard 4:00 (when usually with 50 rounds it does about half or more erratic ejection and about 10-15 of those to the head).

    I am hoping this will end my erratic ejection issue. This is also without the non lci spring loaded bearing.

    So I will be ordering this from glockmeister or glockparts.

    Anyone else have any experience with this???
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
  14. PAGunner

    PAGunner

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    Kudos to OP for fixing the issue, lots of credit for that, but this is crap that you had to even do this to begin with. As much as I love the platform I'm sickened by the apathy the company shows for this issues they've caused by cutting corners. I still think this is an extractor issue, albeit you fixed the issue by changing the relationship between slide and extractor. I don't believe the "shiny" finish is the cause, they had that finish on the guns well before the problems started. My 2008 Gen3 19 that really is "flawless" has that finish and I love it, super abbrasion and corrosion resistant, damn finish looks brand new 4 1/2 years later with relatively heavy use! Lol
     
  15. tigman250

    tigman250

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    Sorry about that, its fixed now
     
  16. glockenturm

    glockenturm

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    Gen3 G19RTF2 Blue Label, 10/2009.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2012
  17. dgbee456

    dgbee456

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    WE WILL NEVER KNOW
    but it aint the shiny finish,
     
  18. Proxstud

    Proxstud

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    Glock fixed this with a new extractor for the Gen4. I can post pictures if anyone is interested. The rounds now fly to the right and not at you.
     
  19. tigman250

    tigman250

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    just curious, what research or testing have you done that leads you to believe this? It has been narrowed down to the slide, we have swapped guts between newer and older gen 3's and the eratic ejection follows the slide......
     
  20. tigman250

    tigman250

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    We are comparing apples and oranges, you are talking gen 4's and I'm talking gan 3's so I cannot comment on the 4's, Glock may very well be able to fix them with an extractor. I can comment on the gen 3's though and I can tell you (as the post above states) the eratic ejection follows the slide, not the internals, to me this rules out RSA, ejector, extractor problems, seems to point to the slide. Maybe finish, maybe specs, something about the slides are diffrent.


    I wish I had access to an older gen 3 G34 so I could compare and measure to see if anything but the coating has changed. Problem is anyone with a good working Glock isn't visiting these threads, even if they were why would they want to let someone tear down their gun to measure it, theirs works. Wish I had the extra cash, I would buy and old good working Gen 3 G17 and a brand new Gen 3 G17 and go at trouble shooting. I am bound and determined to get to the bottom of this, its been a long trying road, don't know if I have it 100% solved but I believe I am on to something here. Wish I had more resources than a single G34 to work with:crying:


    I did talk to Glock 2 days ago, asked them when they switched coatings on the Gen 3's, his reply was "about the time the Gen 4's came out"........ when did people start experiencing crazy ejections again:dunno::whistling: