Duty Pistol Caliber for "Brush Busting"

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by 4949shooter, Jul 8, 2020.

  1. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

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    You said this 'very well man.' Romp 'em stomp 'em break and bust stuff deep, is right with that 45LC. ;)

    Nice set up ya got there too...! Gotta love those Rugers!




    CM
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  2. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    My 2 favorite LSWC hard cast .45 Colt bullets to use for handloads used to be 255gr & 252gr (I forget where we got that 252gr bullet. Might've been one of the ones we cast ourselves from wheel weights. Hard, wide and flat. Shiny, and bit shorter.)
     
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  3. nikerret

    nikerret Mr. Awesome

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    Thus the point if the post, I believe.

    Back in the days when meth was made in a cooler down by the river and picked up, later, I had an experience that would qualify. At the time, I had been a Deputy a couple of years.

    I was bow hunting and on the ground in a tree line, over a small ridge, in the back corner of a field. I don’t recall what I was carrying, firearm-wise, but it would have been a G22, G23, or G27 likely with 180 grain Ranger Bonded, Speer Gold Dots, or Golden Saber Bonded.

    I had been there a while when a very crappy truck pulled into the field. The truck drove right toward me so I got as low and as small as possible and prepped my weapons. The truck stopped about thirty yards from me. The two guys, obviously meth heads, got out and started looking around in the tree line perpendicular to the one I was in. I could hear them argue over where it was. Eventually, they left, angrily.

    I’m not sure what would happen if they had seen me. Most likely, they would have ran away or given some BS story, but you never know. I was only a few miles away, and on the same creek a guy had disappeared from, a few months prior to that. His bones were later found in that creek, years later. His murderers have not been identified. He was a known meth associate. The two guys who pulled in the field were not anyone I had seen nor was the truck familiar. I was not able to get a plate.

    If there was a need to fire my weapon, I would have fired through the tall grass and small limbs as to use the trees to my advantage.

    When I got back to my vehicle, and to where my cell worked, I called the guys on-duty, but the truck was long gone. The next few nights my shift partner and I spent a lot of time driving tractor paths along the creek.
     
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  4. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

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    Not sure either on that 252gr. I use 250 and 275gr. The 250gr from Leadheads, and the 275gr, from Hunters supply. You would think a lifetime of me doin all this, I would be 'casting my own,' (HA) since I always have 'rolled my own,' I just never got into that part. Wish now, I had... Maybe a project I need to start! ;)

    Hints to family for Christmas maybe!?! HA.




    CM
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  5. GunsNweights87

    GunsNweights87

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    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
  6. knoxrocks222

    knoxrocks222

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    You want heft but you also want speed to get through what your shooting at, id go 10mm
     
  7. Railsplitter

    Railsplitter

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    Since the odds of ever needing to shoot through brush for SD in everyday life is so very small I'm not going to start worrying about a gun or round for this purpose. Same for woods carry, being in the woods doesn't necessarily mean a threat will be in brush or that a bullet is going to hit and be deflected by brush.
     
  8. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Bullets dont restabilize after they deflect & yaw. They will yaw then tumble. Accuracy & terminal perf go straight to crap.
    Like CM notes, you dont shoot thru brush if you dont have to. Big, slow, blunt bullets do better than RN or pointed bullets @ higher vel. So, for me I a handgun, 10mm/200gr LWNFP, 41/220gr lswc, 44/250-300gr LWNFP or lswc & 45colt/250-300gr lswc or LWNFP.
    Also the distance of the branches to the target are important. Why Harrels test is vague. Branches directly in front of the target will deflect bullets less from POA than branches at the muzzle. BTW, there is no way to know which bullets hit a branch or which missed entirely in his test. A poor test imo. Better tests have been done with dowels spaced the same & impacts the same.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
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  9. thespork

    thespork

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    In the words of hunter s Thompson

    44 magnum, God's favorite caliber...

    When you are talking rural, 4 legged applications, semi autos, even 10mm take a back seat to revolvers.
     
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  10. agtman

    agtman 10mm Philosopher

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    With the question restricted to 'service calibers' on the autoloading platform, the correct answer is still the 10mm AUTO, using coated 220gn FP hard cast slugs.

    Max velocity is in the 1200-1230fps range, give or take.

    Heavy duty 'ouchies,' especially with a G40 as the launch vehicle:

    IMG_0375.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
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  11. Dom Pastore

    Dom Pastore dpast32

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    Well, You're gotten much good, yet conflicting advice. If I were you, I would 1st decide between Revolver or Semi-Auto Pistol ? Based upon your initial statement, I feel you've more likely an Auto person, which is just fine, although it does limit your choices somewhat. As many here have said, the Glock 10mm, preferably the G40 or G20 would excellent for your purposes. There are numerous quality 'heavy' 10mm loading currently available, & you should have no trouble tailoring a load to your intended application. Just for the record, IIRC, Denmark's 'Greenland Patrol' has chosen the G20 as their issue handgun for Polar Bear defense. If that's not an awesome recommendation, I don't know what is ? If for some reason you decide the Revolver route, well your choices just expanded significantly. I'd recommend the 'old' .44 Magnum, as it will do pretty much whatever you require, yet won't overwhelm you like the .460 or .500 S&W's. It too is 'custom loaded', along with numerous Factory loadings will cover relatively any use you may encounter. Again, my choice would be to 'try' to locate an G40 [MOS] for sale, or Blue Label order, & never look back. And don't forget, whatever 'heavy' 10mm load you choose, you'll have 15 or more of them, immediately on tap !! Good Luck,

    Best, dpast32
     
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  12. 4949shooter

    4949shooter

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    Very good point on the position of the branches from the muzzle.

    I would like to see more tests on this.
     
  13. 4949shooter

    4949shooter

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    Already own a G40. Best 10mm on the planet IMHO.
     
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  14. Magicmanmb

    Magicmanmb RIP BUDDY

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    I originally used a 1006 in a cross body or a 4”629 with a hard cast hand load. Switched to an original XD .40caliber with 185 jhp. The XD that I originally had with a hot 185gr load was the lightest recoiling.40 S&W round I ever fired. Didn’t matter the brand of ammo or weight of the round. Department made us switch to Beretta 96G felt like I was firing a 41mag revolver when I compared the 2. I wish they had allowed us to keep it. Actually offered to pay cash and add my personal gen 2 G22. 1500 rounds fired and holster wear was it. I now either carry the 629 still have her or a hard cast 41 magnum that sees the outside 2 or 3 times a year. But me or a black bear I’ll try a round or 2 @ the sky after that they become orphans and mom goes to a local processor that donates the meat to people that really need it the kids go to a rehabilitation specialist and taught by another older animal. Only exception is one that neighbors bull who had been used too train fighting pits became friendly with it. They have an acre or so too roam around and both are scared to death of a chihuahua & soest
     
  15. fredj338

    fredj338

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    You can set the test up yourself using wooden dowels in a frame. They are uniform so test results are more meaningful. His "test", very anicdotal.
     
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  16. Samuel_Hoggson

    Samuel_Hoggson

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    DP has this nailed. Choice of load or bullet is dwarfed by what the bullet strikes, and at what precise angle. This is not a recent discovery, was thoroughly investigated decades ago. Results can be found in old American Rifleman mags. Later on Finn Aagard did the testing (also for AR) and found about the same thing. The Box-o-truth guys did similar tests, similar results. Settled science, dare I say.

    One thing that matters - proximity. The closer the obstruction to intended target the better your chances. But it's a crapshoot. BTW, in testing 5.56/M193 did slightly better than most other stuff including the .45-70. I do remember that much. Also that the .35 Remington was abysmal (see below).

    If you insist on optimizing performance through brush, given you're splitting hairs: bullet of heavy construction, high sectional density, plenty of speed (yes), through enough twist to thoroughly stabilize.
     
  17. 4949shooter

    4949shooter

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    Yep thanks. I'm not sure how much testing was done with duty sized pistol calibers. I have never seen nor heard anything on duty calibers and brush before. I carry duty pistols on my hikes in the woods and as BUG while hunting.

    I will look into the Box O truth guys for more information, assuming it is duty pistol caliber related.
     
  18. 4949shooter

    4949shooter

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