Glock Talk banner
1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
you savvy?
Joined
·
23,473 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
im generally a proponent for carrying your duty gun off duty, there are several reasons. first, God forbid you had to use it you would be covered by the "i am dept. qualified with the gun". next, for the LEOSA you are covered if you leave your state and carry your duty gun. finally, id rather the dept. gun sit in evidence than my own.

well yesterday i had the occassion to be at a function in a hot and humid inside environment, wearing a summer shirt and sitting on open back bleechers.

knowing that my dept. issued G17 would show its butt (no pun intended) even worn IWB, i opted for my personally owned back up (dept. qualified with it) G26 in the same rig.

not only does it conceal better to state the obvious, but when sitting it was far more comfortable. the shortter bbl did not poke me in my strong side hip/buttocks, and when seated later in a restuarant highback chair it did not press into my lower ribs on my back.

i know this is old hat for most of you guys, as i usually wear my duty gun OWB under a summer shirt and it conceals quite well. but this instance and environment in the deep south it was just too much to keep reasonably concealed while sitting without a back on a chair or seat.

mind you, in my offside i still had a full size spare magazine and a BUG in my pocket.

all this might not have been an issu if i was not sitting on bleechers, but im tall enough that when seated that way my knees are a lot higher than my hips, this creates more of a bend at the waist and allows more printing. i guess i could have stood for four hours since this was an atheletic event but i was tired already having been on night shift.....

just my two cents, that is all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59,811 Posts
There are certainly some advantages to a G26 and I am going to guess that the Shield may eat into a little bit of the Glock 26 market, especially if it shows some reliability long term.


In theory I agree with the concept of carrying one's duty sidearm when off duty. I also can see a reason to have one or three less lethal options, a long gun, a vest and a radio off duty. Along with a CPR mask. But there is also a convenience factor and a consideration of to what extent a pursuit of a bad guy would be done versus dealing with a worst case situation.

I am under the impression that at least some places have no real distinction between a specifically issued/authorized duty pistol and other handguns under L.E.O.S.A. but I admit I am real familiar with the "fine print" of this. It seems to sort of codify a sort of informal understanding that alot (but not all) officers had a generation or two ago.
 

·
you savvy?
Joined
·
23,473 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
the issue of off duty carry can be simplified as this.....when you carry off duty with a gun you are dept. certified with (personally owned or dept. issued) you are covered under your badge even if out of state.....but should you carry a personally owned gun you are not dept. certified with, what are you covered under?

many dept. will not "cover" you if you had to shoot somebody with a gun they have not certified you with....even if its a righteous shoot, you might be better off with a ccw permit than a badge in the long run, depending on locale.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
376 Posts
I'm sure it varies but how many can you be dept. qualified with? i.e...if you have 5 different duty/bug/off duty guns you potentially would carry, could you qualify with all of them?
 

·
Pretty Ladies!
Joined
·
4,986 Posts
I'm sure it varies but how many can you be dept. qualified with? i.e...if you have 5 different duty/bug/off duty guns you potentially would carry, could you qualify with all of them?
We do here. By policy, we are restricted to Glock 9's and .40's only. Any gun we want to carry, on- duty or off duty, we are supposed to bring in for inspection by the armorer and qualify with it before we start carrying it. Even if you buy a new gun of the same model, you're supposed to qual with it.

When we first started carrying Glocks 20+ years ago, the decision was made to install 8 lb triggers. So, whenever you bought a new gun, you had to take it to the armorer and get the perfectly good 5.5 lb trigger replaced with a stupid 8 lb trigger. However, we were recently told by Glock that they would no longer provide technical support for us if we kept using 8 lb triggers, so now we all have to bring our guns in to get the 5.5 lb triggers put back in. After that's done, we're going to have to requalify.

That means I have to bring in and requalify with:

1 G17
1 G19
1 G26
2 G23s
and
1 G22

Oh, well. They pay me by the hour.
 

·
you savvy?
Joined
·
23,473 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
policy aside, my point was the ease of ccw for the other gun, when i prefer the larger under most any circumstance.
 

·
Florist
Joined
·
22,453 Posts
many dept. will not "cover" you if you had to shoot somebody with a gun they have not certified you with....even if its a righteous shoot...
"Cover" here to me means indemnified (from lawsuit). With us, this is also the case.


the issue of off duty carry can be simplified as this.....when you carry off duty with a gun you are dept. certified with (personally owned or dept. issued) you are covered under your badge even if out of state.....but should you carry a personally owned gun you are not dept. certified with, what are you covered under?
When you write "covered under your badge" I assume you mean LEOSA.

When we're carrying off duty (with a certified gun) out of state, we're carrying under LEOSA. Which means you won't get arrested. But also agency will NOT indemnify you (if you're sued) under any circumstances.

And I believe case law has shown that so long as you're valid under LEOSA (even a non-certified gun) carried out of state is legal (this is not legal advice. Check it out yourself!). You can't get arrested. But you still may get sued (and agency won't indemnify you).
 

·
ACTA NON VERBA
Joined
·
424 Posts
"Cover" here to me means indemnified (from lawsuit). With us, this is also the case.

When you write "covered under your badge" I assume you mean LEOSA.

When we're carrying off duty (with a certified gun) out of state, we're carrying under LEOSA. Which means you won't get arrested. But also agency will NOT indemnify you (if you're sued) under any circumstances.

And I believe case law has shown that so long as you're valid under LEOSA (even a non-certified gun) carried out of state is legal (this is not legal advice. Check it out yourself!). You can't get arrested. But you still may get sued (and agency won't indemnify you).
LEOSA does not require you to be carrying your agencies weapon. You are covered under LEOSA regardless of what gun you are carrying.

Also, LEOSA is an affirmative defense. You can still be arrested, once in court it's up to you to show to the court you fall under LEOSA (should it actually get that far).
 

·
Heavy Mettle
Joined
·
3,776 Posts
Also, LEOSA is an affirmative defense. You can still be arrested, once in court it's up to you to show to the court you fall under LEOSA (should it actually get that far).
Whaaaaat?

LEOSA is not, an affirmative defense because it essentially grants a (qualifying) individual the right to carry, even in such places as New York City.

If for some reason the Officer was arrested for carrying a weapon, then it would be a violation of LEOSA on the part of the arresting Officer.

LEOSA, as Amended by the National Defense Authorization Act of 2013 (Jan 2, 2013)

(Changes have been italicized.)

§ 926B. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified law enforcement officers

(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).

(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that--

(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or

(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.

(c) As used in this section, the term "qualified law enforcement officer" means an employee of a governmental agency who--

(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest or apprehension under section 807(b) of title 10, United States Code (article 7(b) of the Uniform Code of Military Justice);

(2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;

(3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency which could result in suspension or loss of police powers;

(4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;

(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

(6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.

(d) The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed that identifies the employee as a police officer or law enforcement officer of the agency.

(e) As used in this section, the term "firearm"--

(1) except as provided in this subsection, has the same meaning as in section 921 of this title;

(2) includes ammunition not expressly prohibited by Federal law or subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act; and

(3) does not include--
(A) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act);
(B) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and
(C) any destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title).

(f) For the purposes of this section, a law enforcement officer of the Amtrak Police Department, a law enforcement officer of the Federal Reserve, or a law enforcement or police officer of the executive branch of the Federal Government qualifies as an employee of a governmental agency who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest or apprehension under section 807(b) of title 10, United States Code (article 7(b) of the Uniform Code of Military Justice)."

§ 926C. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers

(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified retired law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).

(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that--

(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or

(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.

(c) As used in this section, the term "qualified retired law enforcement officer" means an individual who--

(1) separated from service in good standing from service with a public agency as a law enforcement officer;

(2) before such separation, was authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and had statutory powers of arrest or apprehension under section 807(b) of title 10, United States Code (article 7(b) of the Uniform Code of Military Justice);

(3)(A) before such separation, served as a law enforcement officer for an aggregate of 10 years or more; or

(B) separated from service with such agency, after completing any applicable probationary period of such service, due to a service-connected disability, as determined by such agency;

(4) during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the standards for qualification in firearms training for active law enforcement officers, as determined by the former agency of the individual, the State in which the individual resides or, if the State has not established such standards, either a law enforcement agency within the State in which the individual resides or the standards used by a certified firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers within that State;

(5)(A) has not been officially found by a qualified medical professional employed by the agency to be unqualified for reasons relating to mental health and as a result of this finding will not be issued the photographic identification as described in subsection (d)(1); or

(B) has not entered into an agreement with the agency from which the individual is separating from service in which that individual acknowledges he or she is not qualified under this section for reasons relating to mental health and for those reasons will not receive or accept the photographic identification as described in subsection (d)(1);

(6) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

(7) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.

(d) The identification required by this subsection is--

(1) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual separated from service as a law enforcement officer that identifies the person as having been employed as a police officer or law enforcement officer and indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the agency to meet the active duty standards for qualification in firearms training as established by the agency to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or

(2)(A) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual separated from service as a law enforcement officer that indicates the person as having been employed as a police officer or law enforcement officer; and

(B) a certification issued by the State in which the individual resides or by a certified firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers within that State that indicates that the individual has, not less than 1 year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the State or a certified firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers within that State to have met--
(I) the active duty standards for qualification in firearms training, as established by the State, to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or
(II) if the State has not established such standards, standards set by any law enforcement agency within that State to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.

(e) As used in this section--

(1) the term "firearm"--
(A) except as provided in this paragraph, has the same meaning as in section 921 of this title;
(B) includes ammunition not expressly prohibited by Federal law or subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act; and
(C) does not include--
(i) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act);
(ii) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and
(iii) any destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title); and

(2) the term 'service with a public agency as a law enforcement officer' includes service as a law enforcement officer of the Amtrak Police Department, service as a law enforcement officer of the Federal Reserve, or service as a law enforcement or police officer of the executive branch of the Federal Government.
 

·
St. Cloud Proud
Joined
·
2,010 Posts
Meh I am qualified on multiple "off-duty" guns. Dept will cover you if you use any gun you're qualified on. I do carry my duty 17 concealed every once and a while. It's a personal gun though so if they took it for evidence I'd have to use my 21 :) plenty of options, I prefer to carry what's comfortable. Is leosa only in some states? I've never heard of it
 

·
you savvy?
Joined
·
23,473 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Meh I am qualified on multiple "off-duty" guns. Dept will cover you if you use any gun you're qualified on. I do carry my duty 17 concealed every once and a while. It's a personal gun though so if they took it for evidence I'd have to use my 21 :) plenty of options, I prefer to carry what's comfortable. Is leosa only in some states? I've never heard of it
are you cereal? how long you been a cop? :wavey:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,344 Posts
I see nothing wrong at all with carrying the G26 versus the G17. I shoot my G26 better than the G17 (less "whippy" and easier follow-up shots) for some reason.

The G26 with a G19/G17 backup mag is perfect for CC. The Glock + mags also give you a subcompact with 13+1 rounds. 4 less than the G17 with 17+1.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,435 Posts
I carry a Sig P220 on duty, with a S&W 642 as a BUG. Off-duty, I carry a G-26 along with the 642.

There have been times I have carried the P220 off-duty, but I prefer the smaller and lighter G-26.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,784 Posts
My duty gun is a G22. I carry a G19 off duty. I essentially give up nothing from a "firepower" standpoint and gain a smaller, easier to carry form factor. Win all around.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
800 Posts
My duty weapon is a G22 and I also have a department issued G27 BUG. I'm qualified with both weapons but I almost always carry my G22 when I'm off duty. I have occasionally carried the G27 IWB when I need to tuck my shirt in over the weapon. I also carry a full sized spare mag no matter which weapon I'm carrying.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,731 Posts
Dept issued P226 on duty. Personally owned P239 off duty OWB with a spare mag. I am qualified through the dept with my off duty gun as well.

Summer is coming up quick, and I generally get lazy and throw my snubbie and a speed strip in my pocket. Just too darn hot down here to worry about belt guns and cover garments.
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top