Draw and shoot time

Discussion in 'Tactics and Training' started by chris1976, Aug 24, 2019.

  1. chris1976

    chris1976

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    Done some practice today and was wondering what the standard time for this drill is. Today's practice was at 10 yards and I was consistently 1.5 to 1.6 seconds on a steel silhouette target. Yes I could get faster times with point shooting but at 10 yards I dont always conect with that method lol.
    Oh, this is with an outside the waste band holster and a g45 with rmr.
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  2. sciolist

    sciolist On the Border

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    How big is the plate?
     
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  3. Trench Sweeper

    Trench Sweeper On the day of your birth death began stalking you

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    I shoot for the x ring on my B27 targets. Anything else I consider a miss when I am drawing and shooting. My average drawing from concealed till one round in the x ring is 1.5 seconds from the buzzer. I train at 10 yards. Closer and I get a little faster.
     
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  4. chris1976

    chris1976

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    I think 12x20 but not sure about that

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  5. chris1976

    chris1976

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    Nice! I'm at 2.1 to 2.2 average from concealed.

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  6. Climbhard

    Climbhard

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    About .9 to A zone on USPsA target. Major power factor 2011
     
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  7. hogarth

    hogarth

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    While I applaud your accuracy standards, the x ring on a B27 is in a terrible spot and I would not train myself to shoot there for self defense purposes.
     
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  8. sciolist

    sciolist On the Border

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    0.85 would be a good par from production gear.
     
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  9. Trench Sweeper

    Trench Sweeper On the day of your birth death began stalking you

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    Thanks. Lots of practice
     
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  10. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    I think there is a lot of variation in time depending on whether holster is concealed or not, type, and where worn. More variation on how big the target is. Also hands starting position :)

    I do 8" circle at 7 yards, with times between 1 and 2 seconds depending upon the holster, location, concealment, and start position.
     
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  11. chris1976

    chris1976

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    I'm slow but practicing....

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  12. sciolist

    sciolist On the Border

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    Here's a C-zone plate at 7 yards. Can see my max is about 0.65, which is basically mechanical pace. On a 1.50 Bill pace, the draw slows down to more like 0.75. Consistent draw would be 0.85 at 10 yards, maybe 0.90 for a more complex drill.


    View: https://youtu.be/tFtXqFMKBAU
     
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  13. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Distance? 5y is not 15y:cheers:
     
  14. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    A couple things to perhaps keep in the back of the mind ...

    Expectation can work for or against you. If you constantly work to hit a specific size, shape and color target, sometimes encountering another type of target might add some (significant?) fractions of a second to your "time" as you're working through the "orientation" part of your normal OODA Loop. I've watched this happen to skilled shooters when they're presented with something "different" in the way of a target without being warned.

    Seeing someone shoot a standard bullseye, and then a silhouette with clearly defined scoring areas, or a uniformly colored metal plate ... but then pause and mentally try to find a focus when unexpectedly having to address a full color picture "threat" target ... can be illuminating. And that's not even taking into consideration that the picture may be of a perspective presented at an oblique angle, or perhaps in a "leaning posture", or crouching ... sans any easily identifiable "Shoot Here" scoring area.

    Having at least a moment, or a couple of seconds, to orient on the "new" conditions can help, but how is that going to be guaranteed once you're off the static range, right? TANSTAAFL.

    Then, even if you're blazing fast in known circumstances (and have the time to get ready to use that speed), have you actually worked to eliminate unnecessary movement (postural shifts, balance changes, nervous "tics", etc) that might impede the maximum speed you can produce to employ your technique? It's not "just" speed.

    Watching someone fully prepared on a training/qual range to engage a known "threat target" can suddenly become interesting if they step just wrong (too far/close), or their foot encounters something they aren't expecting, like a rock or a bit of wood (or other debris).

    Now, nobody wants to see anyone trip or stumble on a hot range, obviously, but watching some folks ask to take a few moments so they can toe away anything on the ground that bothers them, and generally "police" the range surface before they have to start moving across it, makes you wonder if they're prepping the ground as a sort of crutch. Are they expecting to always have a cleanly swept fighting surface? Will encountering a plastic bottle or paper cup underfoot throw them off their technique if they have to fight for their life outside the range?

    Of course, all of us have to deal with the same realization that even if we're greased lightning on the clock on our favorite range target setup, there's no guarantee that any arbitrary "speed" may be "fast enough" for conditions and circumstances. TANSTAAFL.

    In other words, don't just think about how fast the software can push the hardware, but remember that sometimes some extraneous hardware activity, left uncorrected, may be counter-productive when it really matters (not on a timer).

    Attention to physical hardware (not the gun or holster, as those are just equipment) and software issues might help provide for the best balance. Then we all have to hope we will have the time to get that speed and technique started "in time".

    Training and practice ought to also be fun. (At least to the extent possible.) Changing things up now and again (different targets, lighting/shadows, range conditions, noise distractions/signals and visual cues, etc) might help with mental flexibility, too. They don't refer to actual shooting incidents as unexpected, dynamic, rapidly evolving and chaotic situations for no reason, you know. At least in training and practice conditions we can deliberately "plan ahead" to include maximize safety.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019
  15. fredj338

    fredj338

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    I think you see what FB is talking about in shoot/no shoot training. IF you are always prepped for that 1sec contact shot & the target is a non threat, oops just doesn't do justification. In my 1st shoot/no shoot training I was yes, too fast. 1st target presented was holding a drill in a fashion of a gun, yes he got one round before I truly recognized the drill was not a gun, which i saw but didnt register until the 1st press of a double. It did change the rest of my engagements after that, a fraction slower to press the trigger. Still, a smooth, efficient & quick presentation is better than slow & clumsy as once you do recognize threat, faster is better, you are already likely behind the curve.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
  16. sciolist

    sciolist On the Border

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    Software almost always governs in practical shooting, it's just a question of how.
     
  17. ScottR65

    ScottR65

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    [​IMG] [​IMG]


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  18. Green Dragoon

    Green Dragoon Silver Member

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    that's a very helpful post. Thank you.
     
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  19. Rick James45

    Rick James45

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    Sub 1 sec is a good goal. Here is my practice array for drawing and reloads. 15 yards. You will find that drawing to any of the plates you may get your first hit, but I find shooting all three plates is much more telling. The second plate with transition is often missed. Study the splits between transition.

    upload_2019-8-31_7-45-7.jpeg
     
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