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Discussion Starter #1
This morning I went to vote in person and as I'm standing in line one of the "helpers" outside the building asks out load "what do I do with this unused ballot?"

It was a mail-in ballot that she said some just left outside because they went inside to vote person.

It sparked a debate among several of us in line and several of the other helpers. They called an official over and she didn't know what to do. She also couldn't answer our questions to any satisfaction.

What I witnessed was that, I could vote in person, and then drop off my mail in ballot.

When you vote in person you sign a ledger and they give you a new ballot. You do not need to surrender your mail in ballot. I could have voted twice.

I asked the staff how would they verify that I voted once or twice? They couldn't answer!

The ledger would have my signature if I voted in person. Anyone could vote in person and discard their mail in ballot "in the trash" for someone fill it out and drop it in the mail-in ballot box. If someone voted twice intentionally they wouldn't be able to prove that it was intentional.

There is no system in place to prevent this and this makes me mad!
 

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And you will find that the computers know exactly who has voted and how many times they tried.

If you are registered as "Permanent Absentee", you are supposed to hand in your mail ballot when you decide to vote in person. If you don't, you will receive a Provisional Ballot at the polling place and the Registrar will be looking for a 2d ballot.

The computer will find it anyway...

https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-resources/voting-california/if-you-applied

The state has a pretty good handle on this stuff. We've been doing mail-in voting since 1962 - 58 years and counting.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Don't worry, it is not.
We've never done mass distribution of ballots before and I don't see how anyone can stop double voting or large scale voter fraud.

Ballots would have to remain "connected" to their envelopes but we know they get discarded after opening and only after seeing the final numbers would anyone be able to realize an issue.

No envelope = no way to connect it to a double vote.

Being first time in history that California does this there's no historic data to explain the large number of votes. The only relevant data would be 2016 which the dem's still dispute!

I'm bracing for a sh!t show, contested election, and riots!
 

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Doesn’t everyone vote twice?
 

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I don’t know about OP's voting place, but this is may field report from Simi Valley: I went to vote yesterday, taking my mail in ballot along. I asked to vote in person, and when I wrapped that up, I handed in my complete ballot. The poll workers then asked for my mail in ballot, which they marked as “spoiled” and took to dispose of. Same with my wife. I suspect this is SOP in a non corrupt part of Kalifornia. .


my 2¢


Ed
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I don’t know about OP's voting place, but this is may field report from Simi Valley: I went to vote yesterday, taking my mail in ballot along. I asked to vote in person, and when I wrapped that up, I handed in my complete ballot. The poll workers then asked for my mail in ballot, which they marked as “spoiled” and took to dispose of. Same with my wife. I suspect this is SOP in a non corrupt part of Kalifornia. .

my 2¢

Ed
You could show up without the ballot that was mailed to you and vote in person on a new ballot.

You do not need to surrender your mailed ballot.
A person could then deposit your mailed ballot and vote twice.
 

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I saw an article about an hour ago (I didn't click on it), with a title and said something to the effect of "Texas Republicans lose Supreme Court case to throw out 100,000 curb-side ballots", or something along those lines. Again, I didn't click on the article.
 

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You could show up without the ballot that was mailed to you and vote in person on a new ballot.

You do not need to surrender your mailed ballot.
A person could then deposit your mailed ballot and vote twice.
How so, when they're going to scan the barcode on your mail-in ballot and then your name is going to pop up on the computer as having voted twice?
 

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It an effe'd up mess, and I’ll bet dollars to doughnuts that the demoncats have figured out all the angles to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. If my local Republican Congressman Mike Garcia gets knocked off, I’ll call it fraud!

Ed
 

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And you will find that the computers know exactly who has voted and how many times they tried.

If you are registered as "Permanent Absentee", you are supposed to hand in your mail ballot when you decide to vote in person. If you don't, you will receive a Provisional Ballot at the polling place and the Registrar will be looking for a 2d ballot.

The computer will find it anyway...

https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-resources/voting-california/if-you-applied

The state has a pretty good handle on this stuff. We've been doing mail-in voting since 1962 - 58 years and counting.
it's not who counts the ballots but who sets up the computer
 

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You could show up without the ballot that was mailed to you and vote in person on a new ballot.

You do not need to surrender your mailed ballot.
A person could then deposit your mailed ballot and vote twice.
No you can’t, If you are registered as Permanent Absentee and you go to polling place without your mail-in ballot, you will be given a Provisional Ballot.which isn’t counted until after the last date for mail-in ballots to arrive.

We’ve been doing this a long time, we have it under control.
 
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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
How so, when they're going to scan the barcode on your mail-in ballot and then your name is going to pop up on the computer as having voted twice?
Not so.

The in-person vote is documented on a paper ledger. You sign it and they give you a ballot. You do not need to surrender your mail-in ballot.

That ledger is a binder with no bar codes or scan codes. There is nothing preventing someone from "discarding" their mail-in ballot for "someone else" to complete, fake signature, and drop it in a random ballot box.

A human would have to cross reference the paper ledger against with the electronic data that tracks mail-in ballots.

That weakness in the system opens it up to voter fraud.

Those printed ledgers can be monitored by operatives for submitting fake ballots for anyone that has not signed the ledger.

During normal times they would only be able to get so many fake ballots in but with many dem states that have extended the deadlines they can produce as many fake ballots as they need to win the election.

Once the ballots are removed from their envelopes they can no longer be tracked. The actual ballots are anonymous.

California extended the deadline by 17 days!!!! That's enough time to review the ledgers, cross reference the mail-in ballot data base, "produce" ballots for anyone that hasn't already voted, and take a 10 day vacation!

There are ten (10) states that sent out mail-in ballots automatically and of those the battleground states are:
Iowa - Nov 9
Nevada - Nov 10
North Carolina - Nov 6
Ohio - Nov 13
Pennsylvania - Nov 6

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/addybaird/vote-by-mail-state-deadlines

I know I could have voted twice and for this reason I'm expecting key voting centers to be producing fake ballots.

Wait until tomorrow night and the days following and come back to this thread!
 

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In the case of California, worrying about fraud is useless. There is no conceivable way Trump could win California! Hillary won it by 3 million votes and with TDS so rampant, I expect Biden to win it by 10 million votes (maybe not quite that many).

It's the states with just a few electors in play that are important and they're pretty backwards in their approach. Our 55 electors are already a settled issue. Twenty percent of the required 270 electors are already decided!

I'd be willing to bet that those most worried about voter fraud are the same ones resisting national ID cards.

Singapore has national ID cards and they are REQUIRED to vote. There is a fine if they fail to do so and their voting rights are suspended for some period of time.

Mandatory voting has the downside of favoring the incumbents. People don't know their representative but they must be doing a good job.
 

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Voted today and took my Early Ballot, which I received on the last possible day they were accepting by mail, so it would be too late for me to fill it out and mail it back. Signed in at the voting place, verified address with some mailed bills, they had me fill out the mail-in ballot I brought, put it into the green envelope that came with it, and drop it into the box.

Voted NO on MMJ here in Arizona, people need to stay off the dope and get a J-O-B. We all know how many abuse the 'medical' part of that. Stop the Reefer Madness. Then I also voted NO to retain every single judge on the list. Throw the bums out. Keep it fresh and don't let them think they've got lifetime jobs.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
In the case of California, worrying about fraud is useless. There is no conceivable way Trump could win California! Hillary won it by 3 million votes and with TDS so rampant, I expect Biden to win it by 10 million votes (maybe not quite that many).

It's the states with just a few electors in play that are important and they're pretty backwards in their approach. Our 55 electors are already a settled issue. Twenty percent of the required 270 electors are already decided!

I'd be willing to bet that those most worried about voter fraud are the same ones resisting national ID cards.

Singapore has national ID cards and they are REQUIRED to vote. There is a fine if they fail to do so and their voting rights are suspended for some period of time.

Mandatory voting has the downside of favoring the incumbents. People don't know their representative but they must be doing a good job.
I mostly agree with you on California but some races are so close that a small number wins the seat.

Ideally I'd like to see some balance in representation!
 

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Not so.

The in-person vote is documented on a paper ledger. You sign it and they give you a ballot. You do not need to surrender your mail-in ballot.

That ledger is a binder with no bar codes or scan codes. There is nothing preventing someone from "discarding" their mail-in ballot for "someone else" to complete, fake signature, and drop it in a random ballot box.

A human would have to cross reference the paper ledger against with the electronic data that tracks mail-in ballots.

That weakness in the system opens it up to voter fraud.

Those printed ledgers can be monitored by operatives for submitting fake ballots for anyone that has not signed the ledger.

During normal times they would only be able to get so many fake ballots in but with many dem states that have extended the deadlines they can produce as many fake ballots as they need to win the election.

Once the ballots are removed from their envelopes they can no longer be tracked. The actual ballots are anonymous.

California extended the deadline by 17 days!!!! That's enough time to review the ledgers, cross reference the mail-in ballot data base, "produce" ballots for anyone that hasn't already voted, and take a 10 day vacation!

There are ten (10) states that sent out mail-in ballots automatically and of those the battleground states are:
Iowa - Nov 9
Nevada - Nov 10
North Carolina - Nov 6
Ohio - Nov 13
Pennsylvania - Nov 6

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/addybaird/vote-by-mail-state-deadlines

I know I could have voted twice and for this reason I'm expecting key voting centers to be producing fake ballots.

Wait until tomorrow night and the days following and come back to this thread!
They do go through at the end of the day and match up everyone who signs the ledger and mark them on a computer-scan form (or whatever your state/county is using) as having voted, that all gets entered in the computer, and matched up against mail-in ballots. If they both show up, they'll discard the mail-in.

You're inventing things to be worried about - every state has done mail-in ballots for decades, this is a larger scale in most places than they're used to, but it's the exact same procedures they've used all along for service members overseas and elderly voters who vote absentee, then show up at the polls because they're back in town and can't remember if they voted, or whatever.

Same issues as always, they have procedures to address exactly this, and they'll catch intentional double votes, bonehead Army privates and 98% senile seniors who need to be carried into the poll by their relatives, all just the same as usual, though maybe a little slower.

Despite it all, we're pretty good at running elections. There aren't enough fraudulent voting cases nationwide to change the outcome of one County Coroner's race every four years.

99% of races are won by margins large enough that there's no realistic way to cheat or game enough to make a difference. The few really close races (like Bush/Gore in Florida) are ugly as hell.

Really hoping Pennsylvania doesn't turn into that kind of mess this year.
 

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How many here know there was once in post WW2 American a real battle with bombs, bullets and throats cut because of election cheating messing with the ballots, well some ww2 veterans said no more and the battle of Athens Tennessee began also known as the battle of "bullets and ballots". It was a serious battle and for years most of the participants tried very hard to keep it hush hush as possible but there is a new book timely released. I live in TN so I've heard of the battle and if your interested the book title is

The Fighting Bunch The Battle of Athens written by Chris Derose. I'm listening to the Audible audio book so I'm sure it's on Amazon as well in regular print.
 
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