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Discussion in 'The Kalashnikov Klub' started by my762buzz, Dec 18, 2009.
I'm kinda surprised to see DT 7.62x39 rated at only 2400 fps. Maybe thats just a modest estimate. I think I've seen some of the Bear ammo rated slightly higher than that. I'd like to see some of the ammo manufacturers out there really push the 7.62x39 ballistically to see what it can do, maybe get velocities in the 2600+ fps range, if thats possible.
I managed to get a chance to visit the public rifle range.
I got there when it was 30 something degrees F.
The first thing I was able to accomplish before dozens of people showed up
was to shoot water juggs. The first jugg was hit with a FMJ, the next with a wolf black box hollow point, the next with a military classic (8m3 bullet) hollow point, and finally with a double tap (hornady vmax bullet).
The FMJ impact did not appear to result in much destruction.
The Wolf black box hp, the military classic hp ,and the doubletap created more disruption with exponential increases in that order.
Heres a video
I used an IOR scope mount with a bushnell 4x12x40 scope.
I then began to sight in for groups. My first 5 shot group at 100 yards was 1.5 inches while sighting in with my Saiga using double tap ammo. My hands were close to numb from the weather so it wasn't my best steady sandbag technique with such a lite rifle.
My next sighting in was with my Vepr. Scope mount reinstalled and resighted.
I planned to get a few groups with this rifle and then video tape the last two groups. My first 5 shot group at 100 yards began with 3 shots .75 inches apart and then the last two shots opened the group to slightly over 1 inch. My second 5 shot group opened up to 1.25 inches. My 3rd group started fine but suddenly was off the paper. My mount slipped forward over the rifle bracket.
Edit to add: I found out I was using the wrong mount for a Vepr. I will continue this range report when I get a new mount.
Anyone else interested in the doubletap ammo performance?
Other than Glocker08, no one else is expressing interest.
Nice water jug test. I already have some Wolf MC HP. After seeing the DT obliterate that last water jug the way it did, I'm definitely getting some of that.
Nice vid. I'm not sure the DT ammo was that much better than the MC JHP?
I wonder how DT's load compares to Hornady's own?
Same bullet at about same speed. Same explosiveness.
The dt is brass cased. The hornady home brand is steel cased.
The dt has the edge in accuracy.
$24 for 20 of DT
$33 for 50 of Hornady
I'm always interested in a better round for the AK. I'd like to see the watermelon/cantaloupe or ballistic gel test as opposed to jugs. It would be even better to add everyday obstacles/cover such as a car/truck, drywall, wood, etc, then it would really get interesting.
Anyways, I think I'm going to buy some for myself and try it out. Oh yeah, that was an awesome video, I love it when fellow AK'ers show their results in testing firearms, equipment, and ammo. Makes it a little bit on easier on us to make decisions about what's good and what's not.
Eastern block ammo is not desgined to impact water jugs. It's designed with a large air space in the nose, and loaded heavy in the rear. This causes the bullet to upset, go sideways in flesh/start tumbling in flesh, upon impact. FWIK, the Wolf hollow points are designed similar to the FMJ ammo, but the hollow point makes it legal hunting ammo for import reasons. Wolf hollow points ammo is not a true expanding hollow point we are used to using. If you try hunting with the eastern bloc ammo, I don't think you will see it perform as your normal FMJ ammo does. It will not go straight through.
I think these DT cartridges will drop a deer or human much quicker than
tumbling FMJ would. In the past, I have seen deer shot with FMJ, Wolf JHP, and Wolf SP. More often than not it does not work as well as a domestic expanding bullet. The 8m3 bullet of military classic/saspan seems to do the best out of all the imported russian ammo. I blew up the 3rd jugg with 8m3 and it was far more reactive to water than regular wolf hp/sp. Tumbling fmj might be better than no tumbling but I think better bullet technology is a good thing for the world's most proliferated rifle design.
Water jugs are not the real test. I been shooting deer and hogs with the Wolf 7.62x39 rounds for years. Years and I am getting old!....Drops them cold within range. It does not perform like the normal FMJ ammo. Hell, SKS almost replaced the 30/30 as the hog gun of choice. The price of the eastern block ammo is still cheap, but I have boxes I paid $1.50 per 20 rounds. Academy had a special at $3.99 per 20. Anyway, everyone thinks differently and it's you money, but I will say this, I don't think all the people with 7.62x39 guns are going to buy the expensive DT ammo in droves.
Your right not everyone wants to spend extra to get something more.
I personally like having the best ammo for a given job.
Having a bullet that is far less likely to exit a zombie is appealing to many.
The fact that a 123 grain vmax will enter a chest cavity and explode inside far more intensely
than most any other 7.62x39 or .223 has a redeeming value in light of its premium cost.
I figure that more internal damage is going to promote faster incapacitation for those of us that want to
use 7.62x39 denfensively whether for home defense or shtf like katrina.
Like premium hollowpoints for a pistol I may not train with them all the time but having a small supply for serious business
I think is a good thing. I plan on keeping a supply of DT for serious business and using cheaper ammo to train with more often.