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Don't think one CCW prevented this....

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by glock192327, Mar 25, 2010.

  1. glock192327

    glock192327 Where is eye

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    Troopers Taser gunman they say stormed DMV office

    Tuesday, Mar 23 2010, 2:31 pm

    Staff Reports

    FULL STORY:
    SHELBY — A gunman stormed into the Shelby DMV and Highway Patrol office on Dixon Boulevard Tuesday morning after chasing another man inside, authorities said.

    Troopers said the two men had been involved in an earlier wreck sometime after 8:30 a.m. Tuesday at the Moss Lake exit off U.S. 74. After the rear-end collision, the gunman got out of his truck and pointed his gun at the other man, troopers said.

    The suspect, Todd Allen, 45, of Clover, S.C., is charged with assault with a deadly weapon, resisting a public officer, assault by pointing a gun, possession with a weapon on state property, armed to the terror of the public and reckless and careless driving, according to the Cleveland County Sheriff’s Office Web site. His bond is set at $10,000 secured.

    The other man, Gary Long, 49, of Dallas, fled the scene and raced to the Highway Patrol office in Shelby, troopers said. Allen chased the victim into the office, which also houses the DMV.
    Long asked DMV officers for help as Allen, in possession of a handgun, began to yell, troopers said.

    “We hear the commotion, the yelling and screaming,” said Trooper Phillip Glover. “I have never known anyone to chase a person in here with weapon into a patrol office.”

    Tasered
    A small group of people fled the lobby and troopers from the next office entered and commanded Allen to get down on the ground. Allen did not comply and reached for his gun, holstered on his waist, when troopers Tasered him, Glover said.

    “He went down to the ground and we secured him,” Glover said. “We were blessed that there were not that many people here today. He (suspect) was on a mission to get that issue resolved.”

    Glover said the DMV office is usually busy at that time and it was unusual that four troopers were in the office and not on the road. He said they were fortunate to have that many officers on hand. “Running into a building with a rage, that’s serious business,” Glover said. “It was road rage that he kept the entire time.”

    ‘Sniper’

    Allen, troopers said, had a South Carolina concealed weapon’s permit.
    “Once you come on state property it is not valid anymore,” Glover said.

    Shelby resident Beth Bailes had an eerie feeling Tuesday morning before heading to the driver’s license office. She decided to wait a bit before going to the office.

    “I was freaked out,” Bailes said as she pulled into the parking lot. “They were just searching the truck. I know I saw a handgun.”
    Bailes said she didn’t understand what happened but an officer told her the office was closed.

    Bailes came back an hour later to get her license renewed and found out what happened.

    Bailes read a sticker on the window of the brown Ford F-250 truck that officers said Allen drove. “Sniper – No need to run you’ll only die tired…”

    “What a sticker to have,” she said.

    http://www.shelbystar.com/articles/license-45548-armed-office.html


    Possibly a Darwin Award Entrant? Bastard should be very happy he wasn't shot.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2010
  2. Sundown

    Sundown

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    I like the bumper sticker!

    And when did they ever begin to teach using a Taser to counter a firearm? Lethal > less-lethal, is it not? I hope there is a part missing from the story in which another trooper was covering the taser-armed trooper with an actual firearm. While it's always nice to come out ahead, countering a gun with a taser is a bad precedent to set. Kind of like that SWAT marksman all those years ago who shot the gun out of tha lawn chair sitting guy's hand. It establishes an unrealistic expectation in the public that every officer should handle a similar situation in the same manner.

    Oh well, everyone went home safely that day, an that's what really matters.
     

  3. GasTiresOil

    GasTiresOil

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    It doesnt mean that a Taser is being taught to counter a firearm. That just happens to be the use of force that the trooper applied in that situation and it worked.
     
  4. jpa

    jpa CLM

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    It might not be what's taught, but if the expectation is formed that you keep "working your way up" the force continuum until something works, that's a bad idea. What do you do if he gets to the gun and you're still on step 3, baton strikes? I know we've all seen the ninja assasin movie where he uses his sword to slice the bullets, but that doesn't really work. Then people are going to expect that if someone starts shooting at you, you have to use empty handed techniques, oc spray, taser, baton, THEN you can shoot them?
     
  5. VA27

    VA27

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    Say it with me, 5 times. "I will not second-guess the officer on scene."

    Having said that, I agree that this sounds like bad ju-ju. I predict a reaming from someone Captain or above and a round of 'use of force' remedial training.
     
  6. wprebeck

    wprebeck Got quacks?

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    Mm..looks like heaven
    I'm guessing, since I wasn't there, that a trooper or two likely had the suspect covered with lethal force, just in case the Taser failed.
     
  7. txleapd

    txleapd Hook 'Em Up

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    There's also the distinct possibility that the trooper already had his Taser and had the little red dot on the BG when he started reaching for his piece. It would be a lot faster to pull the trigger of the Taser than to draw his own. I wouldn't call it poor tactics, especially if he had lethal cover.

    My concern is that some people will see stories like this and think that a Taser is a viable option to a subject armed with a handgun. It's like that time when the sniper had the perfect conditions (and was very lucky) to shoot the gun out of the suicidal guys sitting in the lawn chair...

    There might be an instance when circumstances might allow a succesful resolution to a potentially deadly situation by using a Taser like this (or sniping a gun out a dude's hand), but those cases are definitely exceptions to the rule.
     
  8. sargespd

    sargespd

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    Why is it a bad thing that a potential death was prevented, either in this case, or the sniper situation mentioned earlier? I am not a critic of use of force, I am a former firearms trainer, TASER instructor, and veteran supervisor. I would not have faulted the officer or officers for resorting to deadly force, nor do I fault them for taking another option when it existed. Of course it troubles me that the uninformed may form unrealistic expectations of the police, but this has and always will be the case. Any time we can avoid the use of deadly force without risking the safety of the officers or others, I count that as a success.
     
  9. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Moderator

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    All y'all are wrong...
    Sounds logical, doesn't it?
     
  10. GasTiresOil

    GasTiresOil

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    I dont understand what your trying to say. Are you questioning did the trooper in this case start low on the force continuum out of training? I was not taught the traditional "use of force continuum". And I remember the academy use of force classes where they gave an example similar to your's of not using a force continuum when faced with a deadly threat. I dont know if other academies are phasing out the traditional continuum training or not.
     
  11. txleapd

    txleapd Hook 'Em Up

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    Who here said that either of those situations were "bad things"? You seem to be making some assumptions here...
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2010
  12. lawman800

    lawman800 Juris Glocktor

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    It just keeps getting better, don't it?
    If I had to use a taser on a guy with a gun, I would also soak him with oil based OC and then light him up... literally.
     
  13. Pepper45

    Pepper45

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    I agree with the above, I've heard comments regarding a recent OIS locally when a BG with a knife rushed an officer, "Why didn't they just Taser him?" Those are going to continue no matter what, but we don't need to keep giving them ammo.
     
  14. GasTiresOil

    GasTiresOil

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    Sounds very similar to a recent OIS near me. Was this in a New England town? In the case I'm referring to, a relative of the deceased said the police knew they were going into a bad situation, and asked why they didnt tase the deceased sooner. Taser had failed and BG was in the process of stabbing another officer.....