GlockTalk Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
21 - 40 of 55 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
493 Posts
To answer the OP's original question, I have 2 Glocks, one passes the 1911 test, one does not. Both are Gen4 9mm. The G17 has an Apex extractor, White Sound Defense 20% extra power extractor depressor plunger spring, and an extractor depressor plunger and spring loaded bearing I made on a lathe. It does not pass the 1911 test, but does eject consistently and well.

My G19 has all the same extractor parts as the G17, except the extractor itself, which is a Glock non-dipped MIM part. It does pass the 1911 test quite reliably with a variety of ammo. It also ejects consistently and well. The G19 has more rounds through it than the G17, around 1400.

Go figure!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,454 Posts
I might have used the wrong words, I agree. So how far does a 1911 drop its chamber? And how far does a Glock drop its chamber? Hmmm?

Do you guys get my point now?
Just did a rough measure on barrel drop at the end of the barrel hood where it meets breachface.

Glock 19 drops .159
Colt Combat Commander drops .272

looks as if the 1911 barrel drops a lot more than a Glock barrel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
493 Posts
I have 2 Apex extractors and they do not have the notch in the claw. I don't think there is a significant difference in the downward tilt between a Glock and a 1911, but I don't have a 1911 right now to measure with, so I could be wrong. I have several other 9mm pistols that do ramp down as much as a Glock, and they pass the 1911 test quite well. I think the difference is the amount of tension on the extractor (rather weak on a Glock), and possibly other reasons pertaining to tolerances and fit.

As long as it functions well WITH the magazine, I don't worry too much about it. Quite a few of them of recent (not current) manufacture don't even do that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,012 Posts
Here are some pics. My G19 seems to tilt its chamber way further down than the Kimber. Maybe the barrel tilt angle differs by a lot between 1911 manufacturers? I don't know. I don't have much experience with 1911's. Does a 1911 barrel jump up in a horizontal position when the slide is locked back?



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
354 Posts
I prefer the moon test. Go up to the moon and retrieve the Glock left there near the flag from the first moon landing. Bring it to earth without cleaning or disturbing even the dust on it. Since it was left loaded, go the the range carefully aim so as to not disturb the dust and rapid fire the entire mag. If any ejected case hits you in the face it fails.

My 1911 passed that test ever time I tried it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,454 Posts
Here are some pics. My G19 seems to tilt its chamber way further down than the Kimber. Maybe the barrel tilt angle differs by a lot between 1911 manufacturers? I don't know. I don't have much experience with 1911's. Does a 1911 barrel jump up in a horizontal position when the slide is locked back?



With both slides locked back, both mine look just like yours.
What I did was measure from the top of the slide when in battery and again from the top of the slide when the barrel drops all the way down coming out of battery.

When looking at the slides locked to the rear, ejection has long passed.
I can't really see a way to measure drop with the slide locked to the rear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,027 Posts
Just did a rough measure on barrel drop at the end of the barrel hood where it meets breachface.

Glock 19 drops .159
Colt Combat Commander drops .272

looks as if the 1911 barrel drops a lot more than a Glock barrel.
I got 0.152" for both the Glock G21SF AND the Colt Government Combat.

That .272 number? Did you subtract off the fact that the barrel starts out quite a bit below the slide? I measured 0.270" but the barrel started 0.118" low so the difference was 0.152"

I measured at the point where the barrel is just moving away from the breech.

Whatever the numbers are... In any event, the 1911 is NOT a blowback operated gun. The Walther PPK is blowback operated but it's just a .380. The Uzi is blowback operated and it has a MASSIVE bolt. I don't know what it weighs but it is substantial.

Richard
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
493 Posts
FWIW back when I was doing a lot with 1911's, I found that not all 1911's pass the 1911 test out of the box. There's a lot of variation in extractor tension as they come from the factory. I've seen ones that put NO tension on the case, and stovepiped all over the place until they were adjusted. One very nice thing about a 1911 is that it's easy to set the extractor tension. You just strip the slide down, pull the extractor (which is its own spring) about half way out, and bend it as needed to put more or less tension on the case. You set the correct tension by doing the following test, assuming your 1911 is a 45, fieldstripped, barrel out of slide.

1. Loaded round under the extractor in the linked up position, slide upright (top of the slide up parallel to floor). Should hold the round. Shake a little. Should fall out. You don't want too much tension or you can get feeding issues.

2. Empty case same position, slide in same position. Shake moderately. Case should not fall out.

Keep bending one way or t'other till it meets both conditions. Always worked for me.

Won't work on a 9mm - round is too light.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,160 Posts
What Glock do you have ? Does it pass the 1911 ejection test ? With what ammo ?

I've read that Glocks aren't necessarily designed to do this but just curious.

Performing the 1911 Ejection Test: (as I understand it)
1. Place one round in an empty magazine
2. Insert magazine
3. Rack Slide
4. Remove Magazine
5. Fire pistol
6. Note what happened with the ejection. Did it fall down through the magazine well ? Eject out of the port etc ?
As far as I know, a Colt ain't designed to do that either. Who cares, if the case goes out the grip, as long as it gets out? If a 1911 empties it's magazines, without jams, who cares about "the 1911 ejection" test?

There are more reliable ways to adjust the extractor tension, if that's what you're trying to check, in a 1911.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,454 Posts
I did allow for the difference between the top of the slide and barrel but screwed up somewhere.
After checking several times, I came up with .077 drop on the Combat Commander.

As I said, these were ROUGH measurements setting at my desk.

Will check into this more when I can get in the shop where I can hold everything better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,027 Posts
As far as I know, a Colt ain't designed to do that either. Who cares, if the case goes out the grip, as long as it gets out? If a 1911 empties it's magazines, without jams, who cares about "the 1911 ejection" test?

There are more reliable ways to adjust the extractor tension, if that's what you're trying to check, in a 1911.
The only possible reason to care about a case falling out the bottom is the unlikely situation where you fire while in the midst of a magazine change. One of those "just gotta fire right now!" SD things.

Probably not all that important. But I guess I would rather have a gun that ejected every case than one that dumped one down the mag well.

Richard
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,012 Posts
With both slides locked back, both mine look just like yours.
What I did was measure from the top of the slide when in battery and again from the top of the slide when the barrel drops all the way down coming out of battery.

When looking at the slides locked to the rear, ejection has long passed.
I can't really see a way to measure drop with the slide locked to the rear.

I know that the casing is long gone when the slide reaches its most rearward position. The point is that the barrel lug is already sitting in the locking block while the casing is still about half in the chamber. The slide has to move only about 2mm to the rear and the barrel is already starting to go downward. But the time till the Glock barrel lug sits fully in the locking block also depends on the barrel hood, some, maybe even most 9mm Glock barrels have a beveled barrel hood, some have have a squared hood. The beveld barrel needs more time to fully sit in the locking block. The squared one is way faster. The beveled one is a little easier on the casing because it doesen't kick the casing down too far and too early, the later the better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
885 Posts
I was curious about this too so I took my own pics. My Glock drops a lot more then my 1911.

1911 in battery.



Here is the barrel removed. That wear mark being pointed at by the pen tip is the "drop" it takes to unlock.



Keep in mind the barrel doesn't lock flush like a glock.



Which drops significantly further when it comes out of battery.



I don't know whether or not this is to blame entirely or not. The initial "drop" is the same on all glocks but the angle gets significantly steeper depending on barrel length. Same applies with a 1911 just because the fulcrum is end of the slide and the closer it is too the lock the more it tilts. This is easily demonstrated if you have a sub compact and full size or just by sliding the barrel out more to show extremes.



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,012 Posts
Thanks CynicX, your ball pen explains everything. That's one reason why your kind of 1911 doesn't need a mag to eject the last round properly. The other reason is, how well the extractor can keep the shell casing between the claw and the left side of the breech area/wall so that the ejector can hit it on the right spot. A Glock can do this too with the right/modified extractor, but like I said it also depends on the barrel hood design, there are two different Glock 9mm barrel hood designs.

Ohh, the play between the chamber and the shell casing plays a big role as well in the whole extraction process.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,160 Posts
FWIW back when I was doing a lot with 1911's, I found that not all 1911's pass the 1911 test out of the box. There's a lot of variation in extractor tension as they come from the factory. I've seen ones that put NO tension on the case, and stovepiped all over the place until they were adjusted. One very nice thing about a 1911 is that it's easy to set the extractor tension. You just strip the slide down, pull the extractor (which is its own spring) about half way out, and bend it as needed to put more or less tension on the case. You set the correct tension by doing the following test, assuming your 1911 is a 45, fieldstripped, barrel out of slide.

1. Loaded round under the extractor in the linked up position, slide upright (top of the slide up parallel to floor). Should hold the round. Shake a little. Should fall out. You don't want too much tension or you can get feeding issues.

2. Empty case same position, slide in same position. Shake moderately. Case should not fall out.

Keep bending one way or t'other till it meets both conditions. Always worked for me.

Won't work on a 9mm - round is too light.
That's the theory and I have had 1 Colt 1911 gun that didn't work like that, it was a Commander. It came, from the factory, not being able to hold a case against the breech face and it ejected perfectly. I adjusted it just like you described and it had one jam after another. With a loose extractor, it worked fine. Never did figure that out, I didn't like the Commander, anyway. Not Glock, but interesting, as gun stuff goes.

Some things are a given and others follow Murphy's law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murphy's_law
 

·
MacGyver
Joined
·
6,996 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
673 Posts
I am 74 yrs. old,girlfriends are long ways in the past.
Reminds me of the classic from George Burns (known, back in the day, for having a Sweet Young Thing hanging around):

Interviewer: George, why don't you date women your own age?
George: There are no women my age.
 
21 - 40 of 55 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top