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Do you believe your faith precludes the right to self defense

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by G22Dude, Feb 12, 2010.

  1. G22Dude

    G22Dude

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    My wife and I received a call from her sister in another state the other day. SIL mentioned that a fellow employee made a threat at work. She wasn't pleased with the bosses response; however she would follow up with the local PD.

    I asked her what her husband's response was, he was angry. SIL wants to get a gun and training. I second the motion. My wife points out SIL is talking but will not get the weapon. SIL concurs and says husband will not get the gun. He believes the Lord will protect them.

    I said I agree that the Lord will protect us, but can you say definitively that Lord opposes us defending ourselves.

    My wife harped in too that our faith will protect us, yet she enjoys the fact that I carry on duty and off.

    My faith tells me that the Lord will watch over and protect me as I walk into the Lion's Den on a daily basis. He will strenghten my hand as I strike a blow against evil that seeks to destroy me and mine.

    What do you fellas think?
     
  2. Diesel_Bomber

    Diesel_Bomber

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    Lord protects you by giving you the means to protect yourself. Give a man a fish, and all that. Do not expect a lightning bolt to conveniently fall from the sky and smite the evil bastard who's trying to harm you or your loved ones.
     

  3. IndyGunFreak

    IndyGunFreak

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    I'm not saying God won't protect them, but I think this is similar to people who will not accept medical care, because they believe God will heal them. Sometimes God does things in ways that we do not understand(that's probably more often than not, actually). He may very well heal your cancer, by working through the hands of a skilled doctor. That's not to say miraculous healings cannot/do not happen, it just means that God is in control of all things.

    I heard a story one time in church that has probably been told many times, but it goes something like this...

    A great flood was coming, and a man said he was staying in his home because the Lord would save him. A small boat came and tried to persuade him to leave, and he refused, saying the Lord would save him. As the water rose, the man got on his roof, and another boat came to save him, and he refused, saying the Lord would save him. Finally a helicopter came as the water was quickly overcoming his house, and he again refused, saying the Lord would save him... The man drowned, and when he stood before the Lord, he asked him why he didn't save him. The Lord told him "I tried, I sent 2 boats and a helicopter"

    I look at guns as my "boat" :)

    IGF
     
  4. douggmc

    douggmc

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    I think the fundamental premise and the discussion is absurd. :whistling:

    You asked.
     
  5. rahrah12

    rahrah12

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    Maybe God is telling them to get a gun/training...
     
  6. Ralphumor

    Ralphumor NRA Life Member

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    Ok I respect your opinion, but why do you think it is "absurd" That I believe God watches over all of us? Just asking. :supergrin:
     
  7. berto62

    berto62

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    "God created all men but Sam Colt made them equal"
     
  8. Ralphumor

    Ralphumor NRA Life Member

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    Great quote! I like "If its not a Colt its just a copy." Not related but its a Colt thing
     
  9. G22Dude

    G22Dude

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    Why do you believe its absurd
     
  10. G22Dude

    G22Dude

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    Everytime I hear this quote, I smile
     
  11. mike253

    mike253 NRA - IWLA

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    Seems like this joke fits well here:

    It had been raining for days and days, and a terrible flood had come over the land. The waters rose so high that one man was forced to climb onto the roof of his house.

    As the waters rose higher and higher, a man in a rowboat appeared, and told him to get in. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the man in the rowboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

    The waters rose higher and higher, and suddenly a speedboat appeared. "Climb in!" shouted a man in the boat. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the man in the speedboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.


    The waters continued to rise. A helicopter appeared and over the loudspeaker, the pilot announced he would lower a rope to the man on the roof. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the helicopter went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

    The waters rose higher and higher, and eventually they rose so high that the man on the roof was washed away, and alas, the poor man drowned.

    Upon arriving in heaven, the man marched straight over to God. "Heavenly Father," he said, "I had faith in you, I prayed to you to save me, and yet you did nothing. Why?" God gave him a puzzled look, and replied "I sent you two boats and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"
     
  12. IndyGunFreak

    IndyGunFreak

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    LOL... Didn't read the rest of the thread did you?.. ;) Your version was more interesting than mine anyways.. :)
     
  13. shannow

    shannow

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    God has provided man with free will. It is the cornerstone of our entire relationship with Him. Therefore, while you may accept His laws, every other guy has free will to choose the path of evil instead.

    If that evil guy decides to break into your home tonight, his free will allows him to do so. Therefore, bad things can happen to good people, as that guy can decide to attack you even if you are a believer.

    So, you still have to be responsible and do what you can to protect yourself. Besides, if you were looking for someone who believes self defense is wrong, you are looking on the wrong site!

    I'm a believer, and I own a Glock. As does just about every other believer on this site, I would venture to guess...
     
  14. G22Dude

    G22Dude

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    I can understand not going through life looking for a fight, but if a fight comes to you, what does one do. Mind you if either my wife, SIL, or BIL really need to defend themselves I believe they would be pulling the trigger. They might be guit ridden but they would do it. I would pull the trigger with practically no remorse
     
  15. G22Dude

    G22Dude

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    Bro, I know where you guys come down on the issue, however have you experienced this mindset with loved ones?
     
  16. thegriz18

    thegriz18 Paper Killer

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    I think that mentality will get them killed. I mean, do they not wear their seat belts because the Lord will protect them? He gives the intelligence to figure things out for ourselves. I don't believe that he is in the details. I think he is a generalist. He gives us knowledge, intelligence, and free will for us to use accordingly. The devil is in the details.
     
  17. ChuteTheMall

    ChuteTheMall Wallbuilder and Weapon Bearer

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    God will help her find the right handgun, if she seeks it prayerfully.

    Same with ammo, training, skills, etc.

    I'll bet she doesn't even have to sell a cloak to buy a sword.
     
  18. PEC-Memphis

    PEC-Memphis Scottish Member

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    Doh ?
    If yours is a Christian faith, I'll refer to one of the most respected Christian theologians in history:

    St. Thomas Aquinas on Self Defense

    “Without doubt one is allowed to resist against the unjust aggressor to one’s life, one’s goods or one’s physical integrity; sometimes, even ’til the aggressor’s death… In fact, this act is aimed at preserving one’s life or one’s goods and to make the aggressor powerless. Thus, it is a good act, which is the right of the victim.” [There are three conditions under which legitimate self-defense must lie:] “That he who is the target of the force is an aggressor and an unjust aggressor… That the object of the defense is an important good, such as the life, physical integrity or worthy goods… [and] That defensive violence is proportionate to aggression.” [Under these conditions,] “One is also allowed [not required] to kill other people’s unjust aggressor.”

    Thomas Aquinas, Dizionario ecclesiastico (”Ecclesiastic dictionary”, UTET, 1959)



    As other have said, God gave us the best defensive tool there is – the mind. The mind can be used to create other defensive tools – like avoiding potential dangers, taking steps to be an “unattractive” target for crime, pepper spray, hand-to-hand self-defense training any number of other tools – and as a last line of defense - firearms.

    If you chose to be in a risky situation and/or choose not to use the available means to defend yourself – don’t blame God for not defending you if you turn out to be a victim.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2010
  19. mike253

    mike253 NRA - IWLA

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    D'oh!

    I quickly scanned to see if anyone beat me to it. I was looking for the long version though. You won that race :)
     
  20. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

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    "Do you believe your faith precludes the right to self defense?"

    To the contrary: I believe that my faith commands it.