Do you advocate free market capitalism?

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by UncleWT, Jan 21, 2017.

  1. Yes

    51 vote(s)
    85.0%
  2. No

    9 vote(s)
    15.0%
  1. UncleWT

    UncleWT

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    I continually get surprised by what the people on this forum support and what they don't, so I figured I'd make this little poll and see if anyone wanted to answer it. I'll vote first and publically out myself as saying Yes I do support the idea of a completely free market in terms of capitalism.
     
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  2. HollowHead

    HollowHead Firm member

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    As long as it's the same market, yes. HH
     

  3. TxGun

    TxGun

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    As long as it's actually "free market", it's proven to be the best economic engine for jobs and growth, so yes. When government regulates and taxes businesses to the point that they can't compete...that's no longer a free market.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
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  4. UncleWT

    UncleWT

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    I can't tell if this comment is a sarcastic joke that I don't get or just a comment that I don't understand.
     
  5. TheDreadnought

    TheDreadnought

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    I understand and agree with his comment. I support free market capitalism within our borders.

    But it really doesn't benefit us as a nation, in the long run, to engage in a pure free market with other countries. It's really too long of a discussion for a forum, so you'll just have to take my word for it. ;)
     
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  6. UncleWT

    UncleWT

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    Too long for a forum :goodpost:

    So basically, if I am to understand what you're saying, you don't support a completely free market. You support a market that has only certain controls.
     
  7. Deanster

    Deanster Cheese? CLM Millennium Member

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    Even a 'true free market' requires some regulation in the form of contract enforcement, property rights, etc., or it's just warlord-driven anarchy.

    I think most people who think they are advocating for a wide-open free market are actually imagining a fairly aggressively regulated one.

    True unregulated free market would mean no environmental laws, no enforceable contracts, companies and individuals dumping their industrial waste wherever, with no concern for drinking water, no protection of food from contaminants/chemicals, no licensing of doctors/dentists, etc., no regulation of claims/ingredients for medicine, no access to courts when companies don't deliver what they promised or defrauded customers - absolute 100% 'buyer beware' on all products and services.

    No safety regulations for vehicles, no safety protection requirements for workers, no labeling/storage requirements for hazmat, etc. etc. etc.

    Doesn't sound very attractive to me. There's plenty of room for discussion of what the right level of regulation is (and we're almost certainly well beyond that level today), but IMHO people who think the right level is 'zero' are kidding themselves.

    Strangely, you don't see a lot of them going to Guatemala or other profoundly under-regulated markets for surgery or dental care.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  8. TheDreadnought

    TheDreadnought

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    Without trying to dive into the details, at a high level, I support a free market for Americans, and stacking the deck in favor of American companies and workers when dealing with other countries.

    Many American companies don't actually agree with this view as they don't care about the big picture, they only care about reducing expense. But it's bad for the country over the long run.

    Anyway... too long for a forum... buy me a drink sometime.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
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  9. 7th District

    7th District

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    You mean like this??

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. UncleWT

    UncleWT

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    I'm guessing those are children miners in the Appalachia region?

    And, if so, yes.
     
  11. Deanster

    Deanster Cheese? CLM Millennium Member

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    Shenyang, China. Worst air pollution ever recorded, 50x what's considered the safe max by the World Health Organization.

    [​IMG]

    Currently 21 micrograms/cubic meter here in Seattle.

    Beijing has recorded 1,157, Shenyang was over 1,400 last year.

    Visibility under 100 meters.

    Yay, unbridled capitalism! Who needs the Clean Air Act!?!
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
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  12. 7th District

    7th District

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    Yes, in 1911 Pennsylvania. Well thanks for clearing that up, I don't have an issue voting no on that account alone.

    [​IMG]

    1910 South Carolina
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  13. UncleWT

    UncleWT

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    I guess the fact that kids can't work now has always seemed strange to me.
     
  14. UncleWT

    UncleWT

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    Not even close to a totally free market. Bad example.
     
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  15. jame

    jame I don't even know....what I'm doing here....

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    Just so i understand your post, you're OK with rescinding child labor laws back to sending young kids into truly dangerous jobs?
     
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  16. Deanster

    Deanster Cheese? CLM Millennium Member

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    London Smog of 1952 killed 4,000 in less than a week per the British Gov't at the time, ~12,000 by more recent studies.

    Mortality remained elevated for many months afterwards, mostly lung infections.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog_of_London

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. UncleWT

    UncleWT

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    I am okay with it if their parents are.
     
  18. Deanster

    Deanster Cheese? CLM Millennium Member

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    Do you have a better example of a totally free market?

    China is very much the Wild West from a regulatory point of view. Not truly un-regulated, but just about anything is possible there. To get more un-regulated than China, on a large scale, you need to start looking at failed states.

    Somalia, perhaps? Libya?

    Perhaps a historical example?

    The UK during the Industrial Revolution was as wide-open from a regulatory POV as any developed economy in history.

    The Slave trade on the African west coast from ~1500-1800 was wide-open, as were many of the islands of the Caribbean where government was almost not present.

    The American Frontier, in areas abandoned by the French/British/Spanish, but not yet incorporated into US territories were truly lawless and thus true free markets at various points.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
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  19. UncleWT

    UncleWT

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    And the example being used in this thread to prove that pollution can kill? I think everyone knew that. Sorry man, not trying to be rude.
     
  20. UncleWT

    UncleWT

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    No, I have no perfect example. I don't think there is a perfect example of anything.

    Highly unregulated communist country?

    Somalia and Libya don't have a great basis for the capitalist part, they do have a lot of freedom though.