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Discussion in 'Political Issues' started by "Doc" Cavalry, Feb 11, 2017.
Here we go again.
Part of the issue in the video is the guy has already conveyed that he is prey by his actions. That battle was over before it started. If you're going walk around and whine like a wuss in an aggressive crowd, there's a high probability you're going to be a victim.
Conservative knocked to the ground, POLICE did intervene. Set a perimeter to get him out about ten officers snatched him up and brought him back to the police line. That's where the "agenda" video stopped for me.
Yea, I didn't see any "agenda" by the police. The guy was drawing attention to himself and he got attention...then before the attack, he's asking the police to intervene. They intervened when he was attacked. I was a little surprised they didn't arrest the girl, but it appeared their first priority was to get them off the guy and establish a perimeter and order.
This is for Doc.
Most metropolitan police departments have specialized divisions as you know. Los Angeles Police Department had a unit specifically trained for demonstrations and riots. After a few years, when the police budget/politics demanded money elsewhere, the unit was disbanded. Thereafter, there was a demonstration/riot in which news people and civilians were clubbed, leading to a lot of money paid out in civil settlements and judgments. The specialized unit was not available. Sometimes I have to state the point - no one is proficient in all aspects of police activity and sometimes specialized training and specialized units work better.
Now, I would to the mix the fact that there are anarchists and a host of disgruntled people who routinely show up at demonstrations/riots. They are up the learning curve beyond Bumper the Beat Cop or the Detective from Homicide. If they find a way to break through the police command structure and/or training, they will do it. This means that if simply hitting an opponent will cause the police command structure to collapse, it will be done.
Bear in mind, from a subsequent posting to the limited video, it was revealed that the woman doing the apparent assault was experienced!
So without the larger picture, I have simply no way of knowing what options were realistically on the table.
So, now let's review the situation psychologically and tactically. If you asked one of policemen where his obligations lay, it would be his family first, his work colleagues second, and the public third. Outside of the command structure, those priorities stand out in his mind.
So, now the tactics. It looks like there will be some engagement in the demonstration. Of course, you can walk right in by yourself, giving up distance as an advantage, and giving up the advantage of time to assess the situation. Therefore, you are ensuring that you will be physically engaged with at least one bad guy. You can also intervene at the first blow and without assessing whether there will be backup for the bad guy.
At this point, the policeman is aware that an assault (justified or not) in his presence with the full knowledge of the participants. He also knows that a potential bad guy doesn't care that he, the policeman is standing there. The policeman also knows that commanding "halt" or "police" or "you are under arrest" probably isn't going to stop the engagement. Now does the policeman tackle the problem alone (no pun intended) or does he leave it to the "arrest squad"?
So, let me agree with you Doc. If I were a cop, disregarding the police command structure, I am at a demonstration. It could be a Nazi rally with a permit and Communists marching around with a pole. (I attempted to reverse the situation by analogy to what is in the video). So, some jerk, knowing the risk of harm to himself, expects me to step in and take a beating on his behalf. I would let him take a few licks before intervening. My decision would be apolitical. I don't care where the jerk is a Notre Dame fan antagonizing USC fans at a tail gate party either. I have a job to do and I will do it at the minimum risk of harm to myself or my colleagues. "It isn't personal. It's just business."
I wonder if there is any remote possibility that the officers on the scene inadvertently missed stick guy's political affiliation with conservatives and mistakenly grouped him into the same larger group as the other protesters, usually known as "idiots."
That's true...that's what the SC said.
But...Some day a plaintiff will bring a case against the city/country when the cops just stand there and do nothing while people and property are hurt/damaged. Might be called the, "What the hell do we pay you for" case. Just a matter of time. And lawsuits cost cities money no matter who wins or if it even goes to court.
This is highly likely.
Or they offered him protection behind their lines and he refused because he wanted to make a point.
The video is very short. The police also video tape protests. I wonder if their video shows way more than this one.
In this case I'm going to disagree with you, bdcochran.
On a skirmish line (thats what we call them) no real decisions are made without the approval of a command staff member. Command staff members are, first and foremost, politicians. They stopped being cops long ago (if they ever were) and care first and foremost about their next position. They are risk adverse and care first about the media perception of an event. Which leads to things likee the freeway or LAX being taken over and completely blocked for hours on end.
It isnt the field cop (or any lower level officer working the line) that is making the decision to hold back. I would personally lead any rescue team immediately to go get that guy. But when a Commander says no and to wait, and I know I wont get backing from anyone besides a few of my fellow line officers, it just adds to the delay till its perceived to "look bad" to continue to have the guy beaten into hamburger and we are allowed to go save him.
OK, I am over my initial anger over this. It's rather simple. Understand you are on your own, police may and or may not protect you and your property. Be well versed in the law, understand what you can and cannot do, both in front of an officer and out of view. Follow the law, and do not give one milometer of leeway to the bad guys that you don't have to. Avoid trouble if you can, but "go ugly early" if you can't.
People misquote the case law on this all the time.
Short version is there is a general duty to protect the public, there is no duty to protect a specific person unless a special relationship exists. Special relationship means a promise for protection or an act that puts someone in danger. Not an omission but an act.
My guess is that these officers were told to stand down. Don't blame the officers. Blame the bureaucrats.
But they didn't stand down. They did intervene. Perhaps it's just me, but they got that caught the bad end seemed like a drama queen. He appears to have immersed himself in a protest, got loud and intentionally made statements that got a rise out of the protesters, and then seemed astonished that the police didn't yell at the protesters for yelling at him. Don't get me wrong. I don't the protesters were right. I think the immediate response to the girl starting physical contact should have been breaking her nose and or jaw. However if I'm going to involve myself in that situation, I won't be looking to the police to save my butt.
How about this for a rule of thumb: Don't act like more of a dick than you would if a cop wasn't around to bail out your stupid ass.
Depends on the situation. We couldn't really see the full tactical situation. In rioting
situations, holding the line is more important than making arrests. If there is
enough manpower, then arrest teams are formed specifically to arrest and process
Same with Chicago. It's a Democrat civilian leadership issue. The police chiefs
are just political puppets.
The video I saw started with him saying he was being chased. By a bunch of people calling him Nazi, was the "dick" part talking about him being a tattle tale???
Maybe you haven't noticed but these antifa types don't need much in the way of provication.
Absolutely correct in the sense that they finally chased some of the people away after the guy being threatened was knocked to the ground, hit, and kicked repeatedly. To me, they waited too long to intervene.
Watch one that started a little earlier:
Skip to 1:29 if you're short on time.
he was looking for safety in a riot?