Discussion of Collector Values and Patina's

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by StarShip2100, Oct 8, 2010.

  1. StarShip2100

    StarShip2100 Futurist

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    I am of a strong belief that if a classic arm has survived for over 40 years unfired, it should be left to the ages in its unfired condition. There are always many that have been fired, so the idea that 'i just have to shoot it' is a little unsound IMHO. There will always be other used ones. How many other NEW ones will there be? Shooting simply denies the world of one more unfired one, while also lowering the value (many times significantly).

    I also believe that the patina of a classic arm should never be disturbed under any condition as it destroys it's history and value.

    If the arm is in current production, no big deal. But much like a Gen 1 Sig Ultra CDP, they are usually more desirable and certainly worth more unfired.

    Whats your take GT? Do you take a pristine example and use it, or do you go buy a used one?
     
  2. StarShip2100

    StarShip2100 Futurist

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  3. ChuteTheMall

    ChuteTheMall Wallbuilder and Weapon Bearer

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    I enjoy cherries.:whistling:


    Unless an investment is being held in the hopes that it will appreciate in financial value, or unless a very rare and unique historical specimen must be preserved, I believe guns are tools and not sacred religious idols.

    I'll break it in gently.:cool:
     
  4. StarShip2100

    StarShip2100 Futurist

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    Has any arm over 40 years old that is unfired ever gone down in value? Guns are tools, the point being you can get one of the same fired to go use if you want a tool.
     
  5. RichJ

    RichJ

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    "UNFIRED WHITNEY U. S. NAVY MODEL 1861 PERCUSSION RIFLE. DATED 1864. .69 caliber 34 ¼” barrel with mint rifled bore. Looks unfired. 100% original in every respect. Mint uncleaned and unpolished metal. Perfect markings with lock stamped “Eagle/US/Whitney-ville”. Dated on lock and barrel breech. Also serial numbered on barrel breech plug tang. Superb stock with all the finish and a mint inspectors cartouche. Extra sharp edges about the lock and on the opposite panel. A few minor storage dings in the wood but otherwise in “attic” mint condition."

    So which is it? Unfired, or looks unfired? If this collector doesn't know the difference then that would account for his description of the wear on the stock being "a few minor storage dings."
     
  6. ChuteTheMall

    ChuteTheMall Wallbuilder and Weapon Bearer

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    I like nicer tools.:supergrin:

    I don't know how much a plain Raven .25acp sold for in 1970, but corrected for inflation, I doubt it appreciated significantly.

    Gas was under $0.30, and minimum wage was about $1.60.
    I don't doubt that the unfired Raven would be worth more today than a similar fired version, but I'm not sure how to quantify the value of the pleasure I should experience by holding it in my safe for 40 years.

    I think that 149 year old Whitney rifle would be too expensive and rare for me to shoot.
     
  7. Burn

    Burn Taco Hack

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    Any gun I Collect even if it cost a lot of money...will be cleaned/repaired and fired...

    as far as Patina guns...if I can restore it to original finish...I will...restore is different then refinish....
     
  8. Tank44

    Tank44 Tank44

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    Patina, Schmatina. I have a 1943 Springfield M1, a 1940 Mauser K98, a 1925 Mosin-Nagant 91/30, an 1885 Martini-Henry, and an 1873 Enfield. I shoot them all. If they break I fix them. If they are dirty, I clean them. I have these guns to use them, not stare at them on a wall. They are for my enjoyment, not some future investment.
     
  9. tarpleyg

    tarpleyg

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    I'm not certain but I would guess that almost all guns throughout time have been fired after manufacturing to determine functionality. Maybe I am mistaken but if not, it sort of makes your point moot.

    Greg
     
  10. StarShip2100

    StarShip2100 Futurist

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    Sorry, gotta disagree with all. Except for plastic guns, oldtimers should be taken care of.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2010
  11. NW-Warlord

    NW-Warlord

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    How are you going to fully appreciate it without taking it out at least once? Why buy it? I am glad I 'ruined' my HP yesterday, and if I owned that Whitney I would 'ruin' it too.

    I am with Chute on this one, cherries are pretty good.
     
  12. StarShip2100

    StarShip2100 Futurist

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    each his own. You bought em, do what you want. As for collectors, we will keep em just the way we got em
     
  13. W

    W Book 'em, Spock

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    They are guns. Shooting them won't hurt them.

    If a gun is rare enough to have collector value, a few rounds or a few thousand rounds down the pipe won't hurt anything.

    Too many people think because a gun is old, it's somehow a rare treasure. Production numbers determine value of true collectables.
     
  14. yellolab

    yellolab

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    I guess I've of the opinion that no gun is truly unfired. I mean certainly it's been fired at some point in time. The original owner, excited over his new purchase, never fired a few rounds downrange ?? I just don't buy it.

    Kevin
     
  15. epoxy252

    epoxy252

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    Not to mention if it has any proof markings on it, it was fired by someone somewhere with an over charged load.
     
  16. pennlineman

    pennlineman

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    I shoot my guns. I doubt I'll even be faced with this decision as I won't pay a premium for a NIB model vs one that is slightly used.

    ETA: Now something historic such as a civil war rifle I probably would not shoot. I see this as a piece of history that should be preserved.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2010
  17. Chaos

    Chaos S.n.a.f.u.

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    Yep...there is no point disagreeing with non-collectors. They don't get it.
    I guess it is the difference between enjoying something for yourself, or making sure your kid's kid's kids get to see and enjoy them too.
    Personally when I see folks shooting the heck out of minty Conehammer C-96's etc...it makes me sick. I have a MINT cased 1877 Colt Lightning..like it came out of the factory yesterday. They might be 2 or 3 in that condition in the world.
    What would I get out of shooting it? I can go buy and shoot some cheap 32 revolver and get the same thrill. Nah...I want to see ppl in 100 years marvelling over it too, and appreciating the early dawn of mechanical production.
    But of course, non-collectors often don't get it.
    The Japanese got it. That's why there are still 800 and 1000 year old Japanese swords surviving.
    Ah well...thank G-D there are still collectors out there to preserve this stuff.

    Chaos
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2010
  18. Burn

    Burn Taco Hack

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    I will preserve the history with a good restoration and put spark to the powder...
     
  19. zhix

    zhix

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    I have a Colt Delta Elite and S&W model 29, recent production, both unfired. These aren't exactly collector firearms, and I plan on shooting them eventually, but I am not like some people I know of that have to shoot a gun as soon as they get it, unless its something I plan on using for CC/HD/SHTF.

    The only firearm I probably will never fire is the Colt 1911 Centenniel I have on order.
     
  20. pennlineman

    pennlineman

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    Might just as well at that point. The restoration would take away from the collector value since it's no longer original. I'd rather just buy a modern reproduction for a shooter. It's cheaper that way.