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Differences: welfare, workfare, government employment.

Discussion in 'Political Issues' started by Cavalry Doc, May 10, 2012.

  1. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

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    Moved from another thread.


    Welfare is money for nothing. Workfare begins with a mission to give people money, then attempts to get something for it. Government employment begins with a need for services, and a person enters into an agreement to provide that service for a salary.

    There is a difference. And if you don't agree that an identified service is needed, change the government so that that service is no longer seen as needed.
     
  2. aircarver

    aircarver Descent Terminated Silver Member

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    Problem is... so many see the 'need' for 'services' 'cuz they're not paying for them ...... :frown:

    .
     

  3. eracer

    eracer Where's my EBT?

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    It's no different than bailouts for Wall Street and the auto industry, or the $4b/month spent fighting an idiotic war in the middle east. The workers are just doing a job - some honorably, some not so honorably - and those who control the wealth make us pay.

    We're told that certain companies must survive (pay your taxes, Mom & Pop shops, and oh, by the way, no one cares if you fail.)

    We're told that we need to democratize a country that has been a tribal wasteland for millenia (pay your taxes, so that certain hand-picked companies with ties to those who run the government can profit from both the destruction and reconstruction of the infrastructure.)

    The best part is that so many believe they live in a free-market economy, and could ever truly have a say in how our tax dollars are being spent. There's nothing 'free' about it, and we live in a society in which 'representation' has lost its meaning.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
  4. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

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    In the case of employees, they pay taxes too. There
    Is plenty of waste and fat that can be trimmed, but some level of service is actually needed. If I had the scalpel, I could trim a lot of fat. There is no need for a federal agency to have departments named Quality Management, Process Improvement, and System Redesign, especially when no quality is being managed, processes improved, or systems redesigned. The government is so top heavy with management that it is rediculous. I could tell you stories that would make your hair stand on end. Just as an example, consults for critical health care and preventative care that have no results. Just in 5 areas, pulmonology, gastroenterology, radiation oncology, mammograms and breast biopsy, 564 consults without results over 6 months old, 324 over a year old, 35 over 2 years old, and none have results. I cannot tell you if the service was paid for, if they got it somewhere else, or if it never happened. The leadership has been aware of it for 15 months, stated that the problem was fixed in December of 2011, and those numbers are from 20 April. The national level leadership, inspector general and a congressman have been involved, and yet, here we are.

    There are too many managers not managing, and not enough front line workers, and the top managers are still "earning" bonuses for the great job they are doing.

    Yes, it needs an overhaul.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
  5. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

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    Let me help you with that:

    Wellfare:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDrwskLYCrY"]Revolutionary Politics Revolutionary Politics Judge Judy - Here's Who You Support With Taxes.flv - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVqsQq9XcHE&feature=related"]Welfare Fraud At Its Finest - YouTube[/ame]


    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK5JzmLXFjI&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL531AB3A670C1BC9A"]Government Issued Cell Phone Fraud - YouTube[/ame]

    Workforce:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KnEPzKEdpE&feature=related"]Google Perks - YouTube[/ame]

    Government work:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDNtdqCT3YE"]Special Forces Firefight - YouTube[/ame]


    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po-vFXFRt90"]US Border Patrol under attack - YouTube[/ame]


    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ipFuOIBrUw&feature=related"]010908 - Evidence of Mexican Military on US Soil - YouTube[/ame]


    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ipg_9vgkeTA"]Mexican Army in armed standoff IN AMERICA! - YouTube[/ame]
     
  6. Brucev

    Brucev

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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by holesinpaper [​IMG]
    Is this a real job, or welfare? [​IMG]
    Most gov jobs are no different today, than new deal jobs during the depression. Welfare plain and simple, welfare for 'doing something' like fighting the WoD or the WoT (i.e. TSA).

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Modern welfare ala New Deal busy work -- only vastly less productive than Roosevelt's New Deal jobs.


    [​IMG]


    Moved from another thread.


    Welfare is money for nothing. Workfare begins with a mission to give people money, then attempts to get something for it. Government employment begins with a need for services, and a person enters into an agreement to provide that service for a salary.

    There is a difference. And if you don't agree that an identified service is needed, change the government so that that service is no longer seen as needed.

    The above logos were added to better reflect reality.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
  7. G-19

    G-19

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    Doc, thanks for the post.

    Before spending the last 23 years as a Correction Officer I served 4 years as an electronic tech in the US Air Force. To some here that makes me the scum of the earth.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
  8. Ruble Noon

    Ruble Noon "Cracker"

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    All the money for this comes from the same place, the tax paying private sector.
     
  9. G-19

    G-19

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    Yeah, to pay for a needed service.
     
  10. Ruble Noon

    Ruble Noon "Cracker"

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    Welfare? Or are you referring to jobs held by public servants?
     
  11. holesinpaper

    holesinpaper

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  12. CAcop

    CAcop

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    Please, I beg you, please go to a fee for service LE model.

    Your family member gets murdered? Pay up sucka. Latest average for a homicide investigation is $8 million. Don't have the money up front? Go play detective yourself.

    Go hire Kroll and Associates for any of your investigative needs. See how much they charge an hour. Your local police are a bargin.

    Better yet let's compare the bottom end. Our local security company that is the biggest pays their guards $10.50/hr. They charge $15.01/15min or $60.04/hr. They provide you with a person capable of citizens arrests, a uniform, radio, and marked truck with lights that can only be activated on private property. The only regulations that apply are that they must have a guard card.

    Or you can hire us at $80/hr, which we get paid $48/hr. With us you get a standard police package. Most importantly we comply with POST standards. This is important becuase if we are being paid by you directly then all liability shifts from the city to you.

    What is interesting to note is the difference in pay vs. charging. The private guard company wants to make a profit. We are non profit. If you go to a pay for services model we will be going to a for profit service.

    So I beg you, please, go to a for profit model for police services.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
  13. holesinpaper

    holesinpaper

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    Straight face?
     
  14. callihan_44

    callihan_44 INFIDEL

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    we need cops/ fireman....do away with the Trained to Sexually Assault you
     
  15. CAcop

    CAcop

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    Whatever we make in fees or fines are eaten up by our costs. Perfect example are traffic tickets. We get $26 from each traffic ticket which works out to about 5-10% of the total for a ticket. With me writing the ticket and records processing them we break even at best and more than likely come out behind.

    We could pay people less but then we would have more openings. Right now we are running 5% short.
     
  16. G-19

    G-19

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    CAcop, Anytime now Certified will be along to accuse you of sucking off the Govt. teat and to tell you how he wishes you would lose your job and starve. To him, you only have a job to keep him from smoking weed.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
  17. juggy4711

    juggy4711 Nimrod Son

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    Problem is the need and the costs are artificially inflated. As long as the government is the largest consumer on Earth we are all screwed.

    ETA
    If weed (or any other victimless crime) was legal how many less LEO's and CO's would we need? If we needed less of them how much less (supply and demand) would they cost the producing private sector?
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
  18. holesinpaper

    holesinpaper

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    You realize that's self-perpetuated growth, or a growth loop.

    The more you work, the more it costs, the more you confiscate, the more money you have... so the more you can work. The more you work, the more it costs. The more you confiscate...

    Same with speed traps.

    Kind of a BS argument to justify the necessary evilness of your existence, and continual over-growth imho.
     
  19. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

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    Not all. Some of it comes from tax paying government employees.

    Some government is necessary. And, if someone delivers a service for a salary, it is just an attempt to irritate to call that welfare. That's the point.

    Don't believe everything you've read. The average government worker does not make $125,000. I work in healthcare (obviosly). In the facility I work in, there are about 3100 employees. Less than 10% are paid over $100,000, and most of those are Physicians. And, being that it IS a hospital, there are a lot of physicians, by percentage anyway.

    For most people, it's honest work. For some, not so much. I know of several reports on access to care, that are intentionally manipulated to give better than possible reality numbers, which is directly related to the bonuses of executive level management personnel. And the last time I checked, lying to get more money than you were supposed to get from the government is a criminal act. Good luck getting anyone to pay attention to it though.

    Just like any other group, there are good guys and bad guys.
     
  20. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

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    I like the israeli model a lot better.