[DBradD]

...
Any tips on what kind of Lifting I should be doing. ....

Get Starting Strength, Basic Barbell Training and learn how to do the big compound exercises very well. Run that program to its course and then look up and see where you are.

http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-2nd-Mark-Rippetoe/dp/0976805421
http://www.aasgaardco.com/store/store.php?crn=210&rn=323&action=show_detail

The idea of the program is strength, but it should be a great springboard for you, regardless of what direction you go after that, whether it's strength training, bodybuilding, CrossFit, whatever.

In summary, you need to be doing exercises like overhead press, bench press, squat, deadlift, pull-ups, and other compound movements. Avoid movements that only involve one joint. Avoid machines altogether.

Oh yeah, congrats on your progress so far. I think that's impressive.

 

[California Jack]

I do not believe there is such a thing as training for tone. You will not look like a bodybuilder unless you are using Vitamin S.

You should be focusing on compound exercises. These are exercises that involve more than one joint. Examples of compond exercises are military press, bench press, squats, dead lift, bent rows.

I think it is a good idea to lift weights while dieting. Some of your weight loss will be muscle, this will slow your metabolism. Weight training will preserve muscle mass helping the metabolism. If you like doing cardion 4x weekly, do that. Weight train 2 to 3 times weekly, full body routines focusing on compound movements. Do a lot of squats.

DBD's recommendation of Starting Strength is solid.

Good luck, welcome to the S&C, and post often,
Jack

 

[California Jack]

I was 5'11 and about 245 pounds

Oh yeah, I meant to ask you, how tall are you now?

Just kidding, congrats on the weight loss.

 

[Cinic]

Granted, I'm still a novice lifter, but I've never had as much fun lifting as I currently am going through the Starting Strength novice routine. The strength gains are impressive. However, I don't think I could do it on 1800 calories and doing additional cardio 4 days/week.

 

[DBradD]

Cinic, if you don't mind, what are you stats on the SS:BBT program? I'm interested to see how much folks' lifts increase. If you don't want to post pounds, how about inceased in pounds?

Agreed that he might need to up his calories a little. He might be able to hold off doing that for a while because the linear progression should move along easily for a while.

 

[Malkuth]

Oh yeah, I meant to ask you, how tall are you now?

Just kidding, congrats on the weight loss.

Thats not funny. When I first started going to the jim. After my workout and getting into my truck, It felt like I was shorter because I had a hard time reaching the floor to shift. (standard truck)

Was a strange feeling at the time.

 

[California Jack]

That's really odd. Have you measuered yourself?

 

[Malkuth]

I have been checking my basal metabolic rate online. I know these things are not acurate and all but I use them as a basis anyway.

http://walking.about.com/cs/calories/l/blcalcalc.htm

Put in 204 Lbs, 5'11". 35 and very active and I get a Maintain Weight I need 2869 calories a day. Since I have been weighing myself I have lost between 1-4 pounds a week. Last 3 weeks it has been 2 Lbs a week.

I did some math and came to this conclusion.
2869-1700=1169 This is my Calorie Deficit a day
1169*7=8183 This is the Deficit for a week
8183/3500= 2.33 3500 is the Calories in 1 lb.. And the 2.33 is the weight I should of lost which is about spot on.

So I'm actually only taking in about 1700 calories a day. Its hard to count calories anyway when you make all your own food, and I tend to Round up anyway. But for weight loss this sounds like a pretty good loss ratio to me.

So you guys think that I will have to increase my Calorie count to help with this weight lifting program you have mentioned in this thread? Won't that screw up my Weight loss?

What happens to fat when you start lifting like that? Does it get burned up or does it burn and help build muscle? I honestly don't know or understand.

Someone told me Muscle is heavier then Fat?
But Muscle Burns more calories which increases Motebalsim?

I always see big guys in the gym. What I mean by big is overweight doing lots of Weight Lifting, which I think they should be doing more cardio. But maybe they know something I don't or understand more about it?

 

[Malkuth]

That's really odd. Have you measuered yourself?

No I have not. I think it was more of a feeling then a Actual problem LOL. Have not thought about it since then though, so the feeling must of went away. I figured it might of had something to do with muscles being tighter or something after working out for really my first time in 1000 years.

 

[DBradD]

...So you guys think that I will have to increase my Calorie count to help with this weight lifting program you have mentioned in this thread? Won't that screw up my Weight loss?

I'd try the program without changing the amount of food. If you start to have trouble with recovery or not getting stronger, add 100 calories. If you're still having trouble add another 100. Watch the scales and watch your workout progress and make small adjustments as needed.

What happens to fat when you start lifting like that? Does it get burned up or does it burn and help build muscle? I honestly don't know or understand.

Depends on your age, for one thing. A young guy can simultaneously drop fat and gain muscle, at least a little bit. If you're a little older, you probably can't help but either drop both of them at the same time: if you eat little enough to lose fat, you'll probably lose some muscle too.

Someone told me Muscle is heavier then Fat?

GRENADE!!!! (you'll get the joke soon enough, LOL)

But Muscle Burns more calories which increases Motebalsim?

Correct.

I always see big guys in the gym. What I mean by big is overweight doing lots of Weight Lifting, which I think they should be doing more cardio. But maybe they know something I don't or understand more about it?

They might be strictly going for strength without regard to bodyfat. That could be their goal. Note that their bodyfat is mostly related to the amount of food, not the lack of cardio. They could add an hour of cardio per day and still easily eat enough to get fatter.

 

[California Jack]

Arrrgggghhhh!!!!! Crap, I can't believe I am writing this, Malk, when someone told you that muscle weighs more than fat, did you laugh at them? Did you ask them how much more a pound of muscle weighed than a pound of fat? Do you know how much more the muscle weighs?

I agree with Brad. I don't think many people can lose fat while putting on muscle for anything more than a brief initial period, drug-free.

As far as cardio not helping much with weight loss, I can only offer this.

Back before I was old, 29 to be exact, I bought a bike and trained for a century called the Hotter N Hell. I was riding 150 to 200 miles a week. I could not eat enough to maintain weight. I tried. At over 6'-2" I got down to 174. I was grossly skinny. I think it depends.

 

[DBradD]

Crap, I can't believe I am writing this, Malk, when someone told you that muscle weighs more than fat, did you laugh at them? Did you ask them how much more a pound of muscle weighed than a pound of fat? Do you know how much more the muscle weighs?

LOL!!! I noticed that the reply is especially gentle this time.

Back before I was old, 29 to be exact, I bought a bike and trained for a century called the Hotter N Hell. I was riding 150 to 200 miles a week. I could not eat enough to maintain weight. I tried. At over 6'-2" I got down to 174. I was grossly skinny. I think it depends.

I can see that--quite a large volume of training.

I'm mostly talking about normal amounts of exercise. For example. I've mostly gained fat (just talkin' body composition and not performance) when doing CrossFit and my RossTraining programs because I get tremendously hungrier when I train hard. I wonder if folks feel that way to different degrees.

 

[California Jack]

I know when I train in the morning, any style, I am considerably hungrier all day.

 

[Green_Manelishi]

Someone told me Muscle is heavier then Fat?

"Someone" is full of ...

A specific-volume of muscle weighs more than the same volume of fat; e.g. if you fill a cup with lead it will weigh more than if you fill that same cup with water.

But Muscle Burns more calories which increases Motebalsim?

Muscle tissue requires more "energy" even at rest than does fat. So, the more muscle you have 'the more calories you burn' even at rest. More or less.

I always see big guys in the gym. What I mean by big is overweight doing lots of Weight Lifting, which I think they should be doing more cardio. But maybe they know something I don't or understand more about it?

Maybe they think being strong and overweight is sexy. Are they strong or are they pushing light weight and fooling themselves? Are they (grossly) overweight or only heavy? Some of us (including moi) are not willing to be disciplined enough to shed extra weight, provided that "our fitness goals" are being met. A few years ago I did a lot of eliptical training and weights but I could still "pinch an inch". My resting heart rate, while standing, was less than 60BPM.

I second, third, etc. the following recommendations from my esteemed GT S&C cellar-dwellars:

Starting Strength by Rip.

Squats, deadlifts, bench press, press-press, pullups, chin ups, rows. Lift hard, rest good, eat plenty.

HOOOOO RAH !!!

 

[Cinic]

Cinic, if you don't mind, what are you stats on the SS:BBT program? I'm interested to see how much folks' lifts increase. If you don't want to post pounds, how about inceased in pounds?

For posterity, I'm a fat, weak 230# at 6'-0". Probably around 175# LBM. Pretty much a novice, although I'd some some deadlifting and bench before. I started in late April.

I workout M/W/F squatting every day and alternate press and bench press. The back/pull side of things is different than BBT because of my PC issues and the fact that I want to DL weekly. M is weighted back ext and BW chins, W is BO Rows, F is DL.

Squat 185 -> 270
DL 260 -> 310
Bench 165 -> 215
Press 105 -> 155

The squat has been a bit slow going as I've been learning the movement and battled some minor injuries. I'm still learning it. I recently messed up my where my hip flexors attach at the ASIS by doing a moderate deload. The lower weight let me cheat (subconsciously) and not keep my posterior chain involved putting extra stress on that attachment and giving me some tendon issues.

I can't seem to PC correctly so that's been replaced with BO Rows. My long forearms make it nearly impossible to rack the PC as my grip is at about a snatch width. I'd love to learn the power snatch, but am afraid of it and don't have the time or money for coaching right now.

The chins are coming along. I do 3 sets of BW to failure. At the start the first set was 2, now it's 4. I've recently added some negatives to help move these along. Once I get to 3x5, I'll try to move them up incrementally to 3x10. When that's done in about December of 2011, I might start adding weight.

There was also a vacation in there where I missed 4 workouts and dropped back about 10 lbs on all lifts.

I have not been particularly strict with my diet and have not gained or lost any weight. However, I think I'm seeing more upper body mass and my pants are more comfortable. There don't seem to be any recovery issues and I keep progressing nicely so at this point I don't want to change anything. I plan on sticking with the novice progression with small jumps as long as I possibly can. There's no hurry and Rip has said that the smaller, slower gains are fine.

This kind of workout is different for me. It's the first time that my focus has been on gaining strength and I really like the quantifiable aspect of it. I'm either getting stronger or I'm not. I know I need to strip BF, but that can wait...it's not going anywhere.

ETA:

Just to look like a bit less of a *****, the above weights are my worksets, not 1RM. And the press went to 157.5 today using the washers from fastenal. Speaking of the washers, mine came up a bit light...about 9.5 oz each where the specs said 10. I'm calling it close enough for my purposes.

 

[California Jack]

Way to go clininc! That's some mighty good improvement. There is nothing to be afraid of in the power snatch. Give it a go.

 

[Malkuth]

LOL!!! I noticed that the reply is especially gentle this time.


I can see that--quite a large volume of training.

I'm mostly talking about normal amounts of exercise. For example. I've mostly gained fat (just talkin' body composition and not performance) when doing CrossFit and my RossTraining programs because I get tremendously hungrier when I train hard. I wonder if folks feel that way to different degrees.

Its funny but I keep seeing this on Fitness websites or forums. I always figured they were considering a measurment in mass vs weight. IE same mass of Muscle compared to Fat would weight more. But thats why we ask questions.

Anyway I just had a visit to the ER tuesday. Kinda scary. I posted about it in this thread on GNG. http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1087918

Anyway going to start taking a Multi Vitamin now. Kinda scary.

On the diet. I still eat the same stuff just not as much. In fact 1700-1800 calories. I still eat hamburgers, hotdogs, etc. Just don't drink soda or eat candy or sweets. Live and learn though.

 

[California Jack]

IE same mass of Muscle compared to Fat would weight more.

the same mass of muscle would weigh the same as an equal mass of fat assuming gravity is constant.

Now mass per volume is density. Muscle and fat most likely have different densities.

THe stupid part of people saying muscle is more dense than fat is that if I lost 500 cc of fat, they assume it is replaced by an equal volume of muscle. Why would anyone make that asssumption?

 

[California Jack]

Cinic,

I can't seem to PC correctly so that's been replaced with BO Rows.

I think BRs are great exercises and I do them regularily. That said, I do not think it is a subsitute for a PC. If you want a better substitute for the PC I would do a high pull or a low pull.

But again, the BR is a great movement and definetly has it's place.