Didn't realize this was happening...

Discussion in 'Political Issues' started by rock_castle, Sep 22, 2020.

  1. rock_castle

    rock_castle Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness

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  2. thequintessentialman

    thequintessentialman

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    I'm no longer a big advocate of death penalty. If the system were 100% in capable of error I may support it again. With all the crooked or incompetent DAs... I just see too many innocent people jailed.

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  3. Deltic

    Deltic

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    I can see your point but some criminals that don't fear prison do fear death.
     
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  4. Out West

    Out West Just lack finishing up

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    Can you support your assumption of incompetent and crooked DA's with any proof? Additionally, how many innocents being jailed do you see? And you know they are innocent how?
     
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  5. RickD

    RickD Pro-Open Curry Millennium Member

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    After reading Sydney Powell's (lawyer for General Flynn) book, I would not trust any prosecutor, FBI agent, or Judge.

    Having read the book, I suspect I'll never serve on a jury...and I would never trust anyone who was selected to serve on a jury.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Doc McGlock

    Doc McGlock

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    I dunno, I don't like seeing people sentenced to death but things have gotten out of hand with not cutting off the head of the snake. Yes, there are wrong decisions but at some point, there need to be consequences, which are glaringly absent in our lives these days.

    Growing up, I did not fear the authorities, I feared my father! He's been dead 42 years, and I thank him every day!
     
  7. Chris8111

    Chris8111

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    University of Michigan law professor Samuel Gross led a team of experts in the law and in statistics that estimated the likely number of unjust convictions. The study, published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences determined that at least 4% of people on death row were and are likely innocent. Gross has no doubt that some innocent people have been executed.
    Statistics likely understate the actual problem of wrongful convictions because once an execution has occurred there is often insufficient motivation and finance to keep a case open, and it becomes unlikely at that point that the miscarriage of justice will ever be exposed. For example, in the case of Joseph Roger O'Dell III, executed in Virginia in 1997 for a rape and murder, a prosecuting attorney argued in court in 1998 that if posthumous DNA results exonerated O'Dell, "it would be shouted from the rooftops that ... Virginia executed an innocent man." The state prevailed, and the evidence Chaska (died December 26, 1862[21]) was a Native American of the Dakota who was executed in a mass hanging near Mankato, Minnesota in the wake of the Dakota War of 1862, despite the fact that President Abraham Lincoln had commuted his death sentence days earlier.[Chipita Rodriguez was hanged in San Patricio County, Texas in 1863 for murdering a horse trader, and 122 years later, the Texas Legislature passed a resolution exonerating her.Thomas and Meeks Griffin were executed in South Carolina in 1915 for the murder of a man involved in an interracial affair two years previously but were pardoned 94 years after execution. It is thought that they were arrested and charged because they were viewed as wealthy enough to hire competent legal counsel and get an acquittal.Joe Arridy (1915–1939) was a mentally disabled American man executed for rape and murder and posthumously granted a pardon. Arridy was sentenced to death for the murder and rape of a 15-year-old schoolgirl from Pueblo, Colorado. He confessed to murdering the girl and assaulting her sister. Due to the sensational nature of the crime precautions were taken to keep him from being hanged by vigilante justice. His sentence was executed after multiple stays on January 6, 1939, in the Colorado gas chamber in the state penitentiary in Canon City, Colorado. Arridy was the first Colorado prisoner posthumously pardoned in January 2011 by Colorado Governor Bill Ritter, a former district attorney, after research had shown that Arridy was very likely not in Pueblo when the crime happened and had been coerced into confessing. Among other things, Arridy had an IQ of 46, which was equal to the mental age of a 6-year-old. He did not even understand that he was going to be executed, and played with a toy train that the warden, Roy Best, had given to him as a present. A man named Frank Aguilar had been executed in 1937 in the Colorado gas chamber for the same crime for which Arridy ended up also being executed. Arridy's posthumous pardon in 2011 was the first such pardon in Colorado history. A press release from the governor's office stated, "[A]n overwhelming body of evidence indicates the 23-year-old Arridy was innocent, including false and coerced confessions, the likelihood that Arridy was not in Pueblo at the time of the killing, and an admission of guilt by someone else." The governor also pointed to Arridy's intellectual disabilities. The governor said, “Granting a posthumous pardon is an extraordinary remedy. But the tragic conviction of Mr. Arridy and his subsequent execution on Jan. 6, 1939, merit such relief based on the great likelihood that Mr. Arridy was, in fact, innocent of the crime for which he was executed, and his severe mental disability at the time of his trial and execution."
    George Stinney, a 14-year old African-American boy, was electrocuted in South Carolina in 1944 for the murder of Betty June Binnicker, age 11, as well as Mary Emma Thames, age 8. The arrest occurred on March 23, 1944 in Alcolu, inside of Clarendon County, South Carolina. Supposedly, the two girls rode their bikes past Stinney's house where they asked him and his sister about a certain type of flower; after this encounter, the girls went missing and were found dead in a ditch the following morning. After an hour of interrogation by the officers, a deputy stated that Stinney confessed to the murder. The confession explained that Stinney wanted to have intercourse with Betty, so he wanted to kill Mary to get Betty alone; however, both girls fought back and that is when he killed both of them. This case still remains a very controversial one due to the fact that the judicial process showed severe shortcomings. An example can be made out of this case by showing how the judicial system does not always properly orchestrate.[23] He was the youngest person executed in the United States. More than 70 years later, a judge threw out the conviction, calling it a "great injustice."Carlos DeLuna was executed in Texas in December 1989 for stabbing a gas station clerk to death. Subsequent investigations cast strong doubt upon DeLuna's guilt for the murder of which he had been convicted.His execution came about six years after the crime was committed. The trial ended up attracting local attention, but it was never suggested that an innocent man was about to be punished while the actual killer went free. DeLuna was found blocks away from the crime scene with $149 in his pocket. From that point on, it went downhill for the young Carlos DeLuna. A wrongful eyewitness testimony is what formed the case against him. Unfortunately, DeLuna's previous criminal record was very much used against him.The real killer, Carlos Hernandez, was a repeat violent offender who actually had a history of slashing women with his unique buck knife, not to mention he looked very similar to Carlos DeLuna. Hernandez did not keep quiet about his murder; apparently he went around bragging about the killing of Lopez. In 1999, Hernandez was imprisoned for attacking his neighbor with a knife.Jesse Tafero was convicted of murder and executed via electric chair in May 1990 in the state of Florida for the murders of a Florida Highway Patrol officer and a Canadian constable. The conviction of a co-defendant was overturned in 1992 after a recreation of the crime scene indicated a third person had committed the murders.[29] Not only was Tafero wrongly accused, his electric chair malfunctioned as well – three times. As a result, Tafero's head caught on fire. After this encounter, a debate was focused around humane methods of execution. Lethal injections became more common in the states rather than the electric chair.Johnny Garrett of Texas was executed in February 1992 for allegedly raping and murdering a nun. In March 2004 cold-case DNA testing identified Leoncio Rueda as the rapist and murderer of another elderly victim killed four months earlier. Of the 28 forensic examiners testifying to hair matches in a total of 268 trials reviewed, 26 overstated the evidence of forensic hair matches and 95% of the overstatements favored the prosecution. Defendants were sentenced to death in 32 of those 268 cases.
     
  8. Chris8111

    Chris8111

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    It's not hard, just read the UCR. It's published by the FBI.
     
  9. Rabid Rabbit

    Rabid Rabbit

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    Read up on how harris withheld information about innocent people she proscuted.
     
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  10. Oldschooltube

    Oldschooltube Flux Capacitor Technician

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    Ask anybody in prison. They’ll all say they are innocent.
     
  11. rock_castle

    rock_castle Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness

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    That's true. I used to play ball with some FBOP guys and that's exactly what they said.

    Are there innocent people in prison? Probably but it's a very small amount. Have innocent people been executed? Probably not. I'm willing to take that chance in order to see justice served.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
  12. thequintessentialman

    thequintessentialman

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    They put a DA in jail around here a while back. He was withholding and falsifying evidence. There there are the news stories that come up too often where new evidence could potientially exonerate a person but it's not allowed due to some time constraint.

    Then there are cases where the witness is wrong or just plain lies. A promising HS athlete spent 5 years in prison because a 17 y/o lied about being raped. She finally admitted it and he was freed. There was recently a case In the news where a man spent years in prison but new evidence proved him not guilty. These are just the ones I've heard about. I consider it a serious matter to imprison an innocent man. If a criminal walks, chances are he'll be back... granted, there are people wrongly convicted just because they already had a long cri.inal record so nobody cared. I've read a few of those but it still leads back to the fallibility of the system. A life can be at least partially salvaged but not when they're dead. IMHO.



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  13. Rabid Rabbit

    Rabid Rabbit

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  14. jr24

    jr24

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    I still support it to a degree, especially for habitual violent offenders who receive life + a million year sentences, or particularly heinous bad guys.

    But there's got to be a boatload of serious evidence for it to be available, I also have come to highly distrust our judicial system over the past four years or so.
     
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  15. YakSpitRamp

    YakSpitRamp

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    We are far too corrupt and hopelessly partisan to have a proper death penalty.
     
  16. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    No system is 100% incapable of error. Our error rate is very acceptable to me.
     
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  17. Upgrayedd

    Upgrayedd

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    I'd agree to no death penalty in cases that are spotty, if we could also agree that cases with zero doubt get executed on the spot. No trial. No waiting around. As an example, James Holmes, the Aurora Colorado movie murderer. There is zero doubt. Should have hung him in the parking lot.
     
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  18. Pluto57

    Pluto57

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    My thinking has evolved in the same way. I'm good with the death penalty in cases where there is no question of guilt, but those are not the norm.
     
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  19. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    Left-wing nonsense, as is common in this field. Why do I say that?

    ...Joseph Roger O'Dell III...[no evidence tested] ...
    Chaska (died December 26, 1862[21]) ... 122 years later, the Texas Legislature passed a resolution exonerating her.
    Thomas and Meeks Griffin were executed in South Carolina in 1915 ...pardoned 94 years after execution (descriminated against for being rich?)
    Joe Arridy (1915–1939) ... posthumously granted a pardon...confessed ... pardoned in January 2011 ...
    Frank Aguilar had been executed in 1937 in the Colorado gas chamber for the same crime [Sheriff Carroll claimed that Arridy told him several times he had "been with a man named Frank" at the crime scene.]...
    George Stinney, ... Stinney confessed to the murder...More than 70 years later, a judge threw out the conviction...
    Carlos DeLuna was executed in Texas in December 1989 ...[another guy bragged that he committed the crime, but false confessions are only "false" when the person gets executed, according to the left] ....
    Jesse Tafero was convicted of murder and executed via electric chair in May 1990 ...a recreation of the crime scene indicated a third person had committed the murders [which does not necessarily make the first two any less guilty - the "third person" was another co-defendant in the same car with Tafero, not some mysterious stranger and no question that Tafero kidnapped a man and carjacked him to get away] ...
    Johnny Garrett of Texas was executed in February 1992 ...[and based on all of the "new evidence" the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles voted 17 to nothing that he still deserved the death penalty].

    So...this article is filled with example after example of people who were not actually determined to have been innocent. Literally not one case cited where we could determine the person had been innocent with the same degree of certainty we used to determine they were guilty or anything close to it. As we know from ridiculous Netflix documentaries - ANY, literally ANBY criminal can be made to look innocent if you only have to tell one side of the story and are not subject to challenge from the other side and if you play VERY loose with what you consider evidence of innocence - a pardon, seriously?

    Those are obviously their best examples of innocent people being executed. That adds up to an error rate of -0-

    Thanks for sharing your left-wing propaganda, but I have actually worked with, for, and against the left-wing nuts who promote this nonsense and crusade against the death penalty. I already know, first-hand, that it's left-wing BS that has nothing at all to do with the crimes or criminals. They are a nationwide network of publicly funded fanatics.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
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  20. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    There are no cases, anywhere, ever, with zero doubt. That's why that isn't a legal standard for anything. Find the most certain case ever convicted and anybody writing an article or making a documentary can easily show you the person was innocent - they don't have evidence rules or an adversarial process to keep them from BSing you. You'd be safer to believe economic lessons from communists than legal lessons from anti-death-penalty liberals.
     
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