Deputy Down Clackamas County Oregon

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by EA Sports, Feb 14, 2010.

  1. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

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    The common denominator is what they went over the edge over, typically a woman they couldn't let go of.

    And the real kicker is that they were usually not even faithful to that woman.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2010
  2. Pepper45

    Pepper45

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    No harm, no foul. I didn't think it was aimed at me, I was posting more to the comments of the reporter suggesting that you had less sympathy for Jeff than I.

    All I know now, is that there are a whole bunch of people affected by what he did, not least of which are his children. Those kids are going to need some serious help and support, and my prayers are with them.
     

  3. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

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    This is the part that boggles my mind. How someone could decide it fine with them if their children are left as orphans.
     
  4. SPDSNYPR

    SPDSNYPR Zippy's Friend.

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    Agreed. There are always other women. You'll never have another chance to raise your children.

    And I care not one little bit if he was a great mentor, super driver, and has done lots of great things in the LE world. He made the decision to become a miltiple murderer and should not be praised in the least for anything he ever did. His final decision trumps everything he did in the past.

    Coming on here and saying in this thread that he was a good guy is EXACTLY the same as the friends of those we fight against every day saying 'he was a good kid, a community leader' etc. How much do we mock them?

    This thread should be dripping with contempt for the coward who decided he couldn't take breaking up with a woman, and decided to murder her and her friends instead of dealing with emotional wounds. He became what he allegedly fought against. He is deserving of no praise, no sympathy, and no debate among us. His name should wear a tarnish that will never be forgotten. And if he didn't want his children to have to deal with that, he could have very easily decided to not shoot unarmed women as they sat in a restaurant. This man was a coward. He should only serve as an example of what not to be like to others.

    He is a mass murderer. Period.
     
  5. Pepper45

    Pepper45

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    Not exactly the same. Those people are saying it in an attempt to excuse the actions of a "good kid", "community leader", etc. There is no excuse for his final actions, they are beyond contempt.

    What I am searching for, (and probably so is Stopdropandroll, is some understanding of how a formerly great cop, and great guy, could go so far the other direction, and commit such heinous acts. I spoke with a co-worker who was on several calls with Jeff on Friday night. He can't grasp what happened, or how it happened. He was said to have seemed "perfectly normal, just like every other day". I just want to know what sends someone over the edge like that, what makes them do it.
     
  6. Hack

    Hack Crazy CO

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    You know, I remember some bad stuff that has happened within our own community, our agency and others. The darnedest thing is that we do not always know in advance. Some people keep things very close to the chest and then just implode, explode, go off the deep end, what have you. It is not the most adequate explanation, but those are my observations.

    Perhaps anything else with more insight would require a good mental health doc.
     
  7. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

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    it is a character flaw, much like a fracture in apart. as long as no stress is applied the flaw\fracture remains hidden.

    But under pressure it breaks.
     
  8. 4949shooter

    4949shooter

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    The "character flaw" issue is alive and well.

    I have seen it here as well. Guys who are well liked and have great reputations on the job. They are well spoken, look good in uniform, and do good work.

    But.....when you get to know them well enough, you can pick out the flaws in their personality.

    Some of these "super cops" I wouldn't want as backup when the crap really hit the fan. You just don't know how they will react when under real pressure.
     
  9. obxemt

    obxemt Chaplain of CT

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    Interesting how simple and black and white you all think this is. Let's say you're right, and this guy is worthy of no sympathy whatsoever. I might even agree with you. Murderers suck. But what about causation and our response to it?

    I see a parallel between infrequent events like this and incidents of police suicide which are fairly common. Unfortunately I have personal experience with a cop who became a murderer (also over a woman), and I also have experience with police suicides. I feel a great deal of sorrow and empathy for those who choose suicide, and usually there are no indicators ahead of time. They make up their minds, and it's over. And we're left behind wondering wtf just happened, and why.

    Those guys are under the same kind or type of stress, but they choose to take themselves out rather murdering three other innocent people. Obviously they feel that they have no other option and nowhere else to turn. They think they are "weak" if they ask for help, and counseling or necessary prescription medications are anathema in law enforcement. In some twisted way, they think suicide is the right thing to do, and they're doing others a favor.

    Not all of these guys are flawed or crazy. They have issues, mostly brought on by the job. Whether they're brought on by the job or brought out by the job, the job is the main issue. It's our responsibility to take care of them before they reach that point. But many of them feel that they have nowhere to turn, mainly because of the kind of callousness that's typified in this thread. If your friend or coworker came to you about serious issues, what would you do? Laugh or joke about it and blow him off? Report him to a supervisor and make him feel that you've just ended his career? Refer him to a counselor that he doesn't want to go to, and make him wrongly feel that you really don't care, even as a law enforcement brother who "should" understand?

    Many cops are emotional cripples, and they contribute to the problem.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2010
  10. SPDSNYPR

    SPDSNYPR Zippy's Friend.

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    I feel the exact same way about police suicides as you do obxemt. I have a lot of sympathy/empathy for them. I really am not so brazen as to not feel for others. I have in fact made a lot of personal sacrifices for other cops who I thought were hurting. I invite them into my house, talk to them at length, call them and take calls late into the night, and have driven many miles to go check on my people. I'll do anything for someone who needs help. I have many officers at my work who tell me that I was the only one who helped them, and they don't know what they would have done without me. And I'm proud of that.

    Maybe that's why this thread upsets me so badly. I'll do anything for you while you are hurting.

    But the moment you decide hurting others is an option, you don't exist to me anymore. Anything you have done in the past is erased. You are now just a murderer.
     
  11. obxemt

    obxemt Chaplain of CT

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    Agreed. Those left behind wondering what happened to a previously good guy are further victims of his rampage. I'm so very sorry for the families and friends of the primary victims. :steamed:
     
  12. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

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    Yes it is quite simple and black and white. When you decide to murder people in cold blood you are a ******bag.

    I will reserve my sympathy for the REAL victims.

    I will leave empathy for cold blooded killers to left wing liberal hand wringers. That want to find excuses for their actions and maintain it really isn't thier fault after all.

    Mommy didn't love them enough, They were going thru a tough time, etc. etc.
     
  13. obxemt

    obxemt Chaplain of CT

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    Try reading the rest of that post instead of just the first line, as well as #31, champ.
     
  14. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

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    So the rest of the post negates the first line?

    We really shouldn't all wring out hands and fret about what caused him to do this? and look for some way in which personal responsibility is not the the first and foremost single factor?

    If your previous post and the rest of this post denies your first line then why post it in the first place?

    oh wait, I know, it's so you can allude to your morally superior touchy feely sensitivities.

    Maybe you should have just reposted this line instead.

     
  15. obxemt

    obxemt Chaplain of CT

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    If you weren't so black and white all the time you'd be able to comprehend it. But I think you do. This game gets old with you.

    You're not that dense. I give you more credit.

    With all your life and professional experience, I don't expect that subtlety and nuance are completely lost on you. I'm sure you're quite capable of understanding the wider context.

    I'm glad you can use not reading (or not understanding) the post in its entirety as another basis to insult me. :upeyes: So I disagree with you 2 times out of 5. Does it really bother you that much that you're not batting 1000 with me?

    Man, I LOVE that quote! :wavey: But it doesn't really apply here, does it? Because I mostly agree with you, right? You need a hobby other than the search feature; or, you need to shorten your grudge-holding memory.
     
  16. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

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    Didn't have to search, I saved that quote.

    Since you are so in tune, and so perceptive perhaps you can divine my reason for doing so,

    Hint: "Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks."
     
  17. obxemt

    obxemt Chaplain of CT

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    Oh, this can be a fun game too! Here's one for you.

    Hint: Better is a poor but wise youth than an old but foolish king, who will no longer take advice.
     
  18. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

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    A fool vents all his feelings, But a wise man holds them back.

    :cool::wavey:
     
  19. obxemt

    obxemt Chaplain of CT

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    Don't be so hard on yourself!
     
  20. SPDSNYPR

    SPDSNYPR Zippy's Friend.

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    OK - cage match for you two. I'll pay to see it. Old School MMA - no holds barred, no time limits. Let's get it on.