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Defensive Tactics and Martial Arts

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by mercop, Mar 1, 2010.

  1. mercop

    mercop

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    Most people realize that muscles have no memory, what happens is that synopsis are formed in the brain. A happens and I do B, it is successful so I continue to do it. B leads to C, D, E..... The problem is that in many martial arts and defensive tactics programs they make you start at their C instead of your natural human response that is everyone's A. By using the natural human default position with hands down at our sides along with our primitive stress response system of bringing our hands up to protect our throats and faces, we teach touch points training where once you get to the outside you remember you have options. This is using the known to teach the unknown. A very effective and basic teaching principle for any subject. We do thing along with getting the person to step in and they are remembered not only to get to the outside of the attacker but to get away instead of continuing the fight.- George
     
  2. ATXG35

    ATXG35

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    It's good to diferentiate between self defense and fighting. Both are importat to learn but self defense training should start from a position of disadvantage. You need to now how to fight too once the fight is on.
     

  3. lawman800

    lawman800 Juris Glocktor

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    It just keeps getting better, don't it?
    There's is no natural position or technique that can be taught... when you're in that mode, your instincts take over and you do what you have to do. Training just supplants it with a set of options that you can use instead of running, clawing, scratching, crying, curling up and dying, etc.
     
  4. Glocker1984

    Glocker1984

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    That's why I've always liked the SPEAR system. The SPEAR system is basically a bridge to your next move or action. It's a natural response, that can potentially create space and opportunity for you to your next option/action. I agree that every defense program needs to start from the ground up. If you teach someone complex motor functions without the basics of situational awareness, movement, muscle memory, and response; it will not end very well for the victim.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2010
  5. Hack

    Hack Crazy CO Gold Member

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    I have found in real applications that the gross motor movements are considered normal for the human body, as is the tendency to back out and retreat to safety. If a person gets to technical and it doesn't become part of ingrained skills then the person is not going to use what their taught in a given situation.

    Basically the principal of "Keep It Simple Stupid" applies very well here.
     
  6. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

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  7. glock192327

    glock192327 Where is eye

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    Nose, throat, nuts and knees. Not necessarily in that order, depending upon what's more readily available.
     
  8. Hack

    Hack Crazy CO Gold Member

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    I am beginning to think I am in part Irish, (which I may be). I keep wanting to take them out at the knees.:rofl:
     
  9. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

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    Or you are just very short.

    :supergrin:

    I always operated on the principle of destroying the other guys balance. without balance you have no real power.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2010
  10. Hack

    Hack Crazy CO Gold Member

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    Actually I am kind of tall. But, I still like to "cap 'em". I agree with you, that loss of sense of balance wins a fight.
     
  11. Trigger Finger

    Trigger Finger

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    Not to sound callous, mean or asinine, which I have been accused of on these boards but is there a question involved here or is this just an advertisement for your avitar?
    I do, by the way have a Sandan in Kenpo Karate, and this is kind of basic stuff.
     
  12. msu_grad_121

    msu_grad_121 BOOSH

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    I disagree! I'm completely unbalanced and I'm quite powerful! Ask the losers from the neighborhood and you'll hear "Awwww HELL naw! That crazy white boy? You don't wanna mess wit him! Mo fo will leave you wif teef mawks and sheeeet!" Personally, I LOVE my rep! :rofl:

    No, seriously, I agree with Trigger Finger. While I agree that current standards in DT/PPCT/whatever are garbage, if all you're doing is pimping your school or training system, that's bull...
     
  13. mercop

    mercop

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    Yes, and yes. I am not sure how familiar you are with me but I put out what some believe is lots of free useful information on a wide range of topics included in the range of personal protection and preparedness. The fact that I am no retired from LE allows me to post more and train more (my full time job). So if I have to decide how to spend my day it would only make sense to try to kill two birds with one stone. The majority of people reading the information that I post will never train with me and that it fine. It is just my Jihad to cut through the BS spouted by people that are stuck on the best tool instead of basic training and mindset.

    As far as it being basic stuff I think we can both agree that the basics done well are what makes you advanced. Also not to sound callous but in Kempo Karate how do they teach defenses against edged weapons and do you cover transitioning to a firearm? I have a pretty decent traditional MA background but along with traditional firearms training I have found through experience and research that any stylized "you do A and I will do B" type of training fails during pressure testing in comparison to principle based ideas.- George

    - George
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2010
  14. BleedNOrange

    BleedNOrange Go Vols

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    :rofl:
     
  15. SPDSNYPR

    SPDSNYPR Zippy's Friend.

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    Word.
     
  16. Bushido5150

    Bushido5150

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    I teach traditional "non-American" style Karate, MMA, woman's self defense, and street fighting.

    For the street fighting and woman's self defense classes, simplicity is the key. Every technique must be able to stand on its own, must be effective 90-95% percent of the time if done correctly, and super easy to do correctly.

    I teach "fear or stress inoculation" forcing people over time to deal with fear and stress of combat and use it positively for defense instead of cowering.
    But my favorite drills are what we call "Oh Sh**" drills. Put people in some of the worst positions possible (mounted or on their face) just short of being submitted or pummeled, and make them fight and survive for 1-3 minutes.

    There are a few things that drive me nuts when it comes to martial arts. I hate super complex collection of moves that all rely on the move previous to work. Combat and life is just to volatile for that to be a good idea. I also cannot stand pompous instructors who think only "their style" is real and best. Cause when you break it all down, every style use the same stuff. Lastly I can't stand instructors trying to get rich off martial arts, and soaking people for every dime they can.

    Sorry I think this the biggest post I have every posted :tongueout:
     
  17. mercop

    mercop

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  18. glock192327

    glock192327 Where is eye

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  19. Trigger Finger

    Trigger Finger

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    OK. I will contribute for one post. First I don't think that this belongs in Cop Talk IMHO. But I have been criticized in the past for just saying such a hennas statement!

    Many martial arts it seems to me to be like bare knuckle training with the goal to deliberately inflict any kind of potentially disabling injury on someone even in training. I don't think it proves how great you are!
    Honestly, I don't know whether it's necessarily good or bad. From a martial arts perspective I don't gain much!!

    I have heard the dissenters who claim that karate is just a sham and can't win against street fighters and karate practitioners can't really fight. I'm a karate purist and I believe that a talented and well trained karate-ka can hold there own against anyone! I believe that the true martial artist should be striving for something more, something better. Martial arts are supposed to be something past pure thuggishness, and more of an art.
    I am not completley against full contact or bare knuckle training, I'm sure it's good entertainment for many people, but I think that for the serious martial artist it just doesn't have that much to offer.
     
  20. Bushido5150

    Bushido5150

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    Great post..

    I will not teach a thug and the way my class is structured thugs don't want to be there anyway.
    The only problem I have with pure karate is lack of ground skills. That is why I incorporated it into the style.
    I feel responsible for my students, if they cannot defend themselves standing up or on the ground then I have failed them.